Do you really need a control panel for e-kettle?

[lafolielapper]

So, yeah, if I really don't feel like spending the money, is there anything wrong with just letting a 240 5500W element just go full blast without a control panel for my 5.25 and 10.5 gallon batches?

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-element-kits

 

[wubears71]

It will get too hot.

 

[DustBow]

At the very least use a PWM. You can also build a pretty simple PID box without all the flashy bells and whistles and lights.

 

[Mightyscoop]

If you're hell-bent on not building any sort of controls you may be better off forgetting about 10g batches and just going with a 2000W-ish 120V element for 5g batches. You could run that full blast and not really worry about having to control its output. That or a PWM build like DustBow has suggested.

Just my $0.02

 

[DaleHair]

You can use boil a 10g batch just fine with one 3000w element, some use two 3000w elements to get to a boil and one to mantain the boil.

 

[itsme6582]

The Electric Brewery is great but it's a Cadillac. You can do a panel for much cheaper. You'll probably going to want something to control your element. There are lots of toolbox threads for pumps and PIDs. There are also a few DIY PWM threads where you control the output of your element with a dial. There are much cheaper and simpler solutions out there. Just make sure you keep it safe.

 

[EarthBound]

At the very least use a PWM. You can also build a pretty simple PID box without all the flashy bells and whistles and lights.

+1

A PWM circuit is pathetically easy to build and it'll give you excellent control of the element.

 

[lafolielapper]

so a single low density 3000W 240V heater element for a range between 5-10 gallon batches should be fine. I'm not super electrical savvy, and I am confused why there isn't just some kind of dial that I can hook up to the element (like how a stovetop works) without it looking like a bunch of wires and 9v batteries (ghetto rigged). I do not need it to be controlled via a temp controller, just manually by a dial what are my options. thanks.

 

[DaleHair]

I know one 3000w element in a keggle will boil a 10g batch just fine, you could use a 3000w and a 2000w or 2500w. Then you can use both for getting to a boil and one or the oher depending on batch size. I do not know what size is best for a 5g batch. One advantage of using a set heat input is a consistent boiloff rate.

 

[lafolielapper]

so I am contemplating making the leap into electric brewing since I intend to move to MN here in a few months, and with electric, my brewing season doesn't need to be limited by the typical Minnesota winter weather.

With that said, I am very confused. Everyone says to use a GFCI breaker when going electric, but when I am researching, I am confused what items I need to actually be able to use my setup with a GFCI circuit.

My plan is to use this controller (http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-306p3084.htm) Don't hate, I'd rather spend the money and have it done right then have a cheapo DIY PWM type setup that I might just screw up anyway. I will also use this element (http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Heating-Element-5500-Watt-SS-306p2669.htm).

My confusion comes from the fact that with the controller, I have the choice of a 3 or 4 wire model for the controller, and since everyone says I'd be stupid not to use GFCI when doing e-brewing, then I obviously must use the 4 wire version. However, the element only comes in a 3 prong variant. I am confused...if the heater is only 3 prong, but the controller is a 4-wire setup, and connected to a GFCI breaker, am I still protected?

Also, since I plan on having my dad (electrician) put the 220V 30A drop in the garage, I assume that this can only be the 4-prong outlet or else it would not be truly GFCI protected? Damn I'm dumb.

 

[Dgonza9]

so I am contemplating making the leap into electric brewing since I intend to move to MN here in a few months, and with electric, my brewing season doesn't need to be limited by the typical Minnesota winter weather.

With that said, I am very confused. Everyone says to use a GFCI breaker when going electric, but when I am researching, I am confused what items I need to actually be able to use my setup with a GFCI circuit.

My plan is to use this controller (http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-306p3084.htm) Don't hate, I'd rather spend the money and have it done right then have a cheapo DIY PWM type setup that I might just screw up anyway. I will also use this element (http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/Heating-Element-5500-Watt-SS-306p2669.htm).


My confusion comes from the fact that with the controller, I have the choice of a 3 or 4 wire model for the controller, and since everyone says I'd be stupid not to use GFCI when doing e-brewing, then I obviously must use the 4 wire version. However, the element only comes in a 3 prong variant. I am confused...if the heater is only 3 prong, but the controller is a 4-wire setup, and connected to a GFCI breaker, am I still protected?

Also, since I plan on having my dad (electrician) put the 220V 30A drop in the garage, I assume that this can only be the 4-prong outlet or else it would not be truly GFCI protected? Damn I'm dumb.

I would think your Dad could tell you!

The 3 wire 220V setup has two hot legs and a ground. That's all it needs to work. A 4 wire 220V setup also has a neutral wire. I think this is because some appliances require 120V power to make some part of the appliance function. In 120V power you need a neutral wire.

This has always been hard for me to understand so I'll be curious what the pros say. I believe you are GFCI protected either way. But don't take my word on it as I'm just some dude on the internet. I'm sure a pro on here will fill you in.

As far as options, someone already mentioned the super cheapo way to go, which is to use two 2000W 120V elements. 2000W is perfect for 5 gallon batches and 4000 is really perfect fo 10 gallons. You could just wire up 2 20 amp lines and put them in a box with a switched receptacle.

The issue with doing this is that if you're like me you add to your setup a lot. I started with one keggle with 2 elements in it. Then I got another. 2 more switches. Then pumps, ventilation, RIMS tube, etc. Before you know it it can become a lot of switches.

I've personally found that there was no way to do things perfect the first time. The learning curve keeps me from making large leaps. So you're idea for the store bought controller is actually pretty solid at this point, though pricey. The issue with the store bought controller is not just the price, but that it's a dead end in terms of upgrades. I know it seems like the perfect solution right now, but I think many/most of us ultimately want the ability to upgrade.

But hey, to each his own.

 

[S0meB0dy]

I have been brewing with a 4500W lwd element in my e-keggle for about a year with no issues. I just plug it in and let it run full power. I have done both 5 and 10 gallon batches, low and high gravity. I just learned to compensate for the high rate of boil off.

 

[itsme6582]

You should really look at the things suggested. 250 for what that thing does seems pretty steep. You could have a lot more capabilities for that kind of change. You could buy an enclosure, PID, and switches. You'd be able to control the output of your boil element and control a RIMS tube for that much.

 

[wadefisher]

I have been brewing with a 4500W lwd element in my e-keggle for about a year with no issues. I just plug it in and let it run full power. I have done both 5 and 10 gallon batches, low and high gravity. I just learned to compensate for the high rate of boil off.

Diddo: I've done this ALOT! 4500W boils 12 gallons down to 10.5 in 60 minutes just perfect for me. No control, strait to the outlet.

Also: I know I can control my all electric system 100% manually if I want to stay next to the HLT and watch the temp dial. Not much different then using propane, just watch and manually turn it on/off. To me it would still be better then using propane. I've even run RIMM setup manually with no control panel. Just a couple switched outlets and some close attention and your in business.

As with all brewing, do it at what level you want to.

 

[tommyk]

I would think your Dad could tell you!

The 3 wire 220V setup has two hot legs and a ground. That's all it needs to work. A 4 wire 220V setup also has a neutral wire. I think this is because some appliances require 120V power to make some part of the appliance function. In 120V power you need a neutral wire.

This has always been hard for me to understand so I'll be curious what the pros say. I believe you are GFCI protected either way. But don't take my word on it as I'm just some dude on the internet. I'm sure a pro on here will fill you in.

As far as options, someone already mentioned the super cheapo way to go, which is to use two 2000W 120V elements. 2000W is perfect for 5 gallon batches and 4000 is really perfect fo 10 gallons. You could just wire up 2 20 amp lines and put them in a box with a switched receptacle.

The issue with doing this is that if you're like me you add to your setup a lot. I started with one keggle with 2 elements in it. Then I got another. 2 more switches. Then pumps, ventilation, RIMS tube, etc. Before you know it it can become a lot of switches.

I've personally found that there was no way to do things perfect the first time. The learning curve keeps me from making large leaps. So you're idea for the store bought controller is actually pretty solid at this point, though pricey. The issue with the store bought controller is not just the price, but that it's a dead end in terms of upgrades. I know it seems like the perfect solution right now, but I think many/most of us ultimately want the ability to upgrade.

But hey, to each his own.

I know this is old, but I would love to understand why a GFCI is needed for the kettles. I understand what a GFCI does, but not sure how the neutral would EVER get tripped since its not even hooked up to the heating element. I see how the ground would trip the circuit breaker if your pot / water became 'juiced' and the ground carried the current back to the breaker.

I have been trying to come up with a system I can hook up in my apartment and move whenever I move / buy a house. I only have access to a 240v 3 plug dryer plug in the basement, and I really don't want to shell out money to get a new breaker installed.

Any thoughts / answers to this? I really feel like I am wrong, but I don't understand how the neutral becomes part of the equation in the 3 wire heat sticks.

 

[S0meB0dy]

You can purchase a GFCI cord to plug directly into your dryer outlet and then connect that to your kettles. Check around on Ebay for a decent deal.

The GFCI will work by comparing the current on the two hot lines and will trip if it detects any leakage between them. The neutral comes into the equation when you have something that has both 240V and 120V components, like a control panel connected to pumps and elements. In that case the breaker compares the current between the 2 hots and neutral to test for any leakage.

 

[CidahMastah]

The issue with the store bought controller is not just the price, but that it's a dead end in terms of upgrades. I know it seems like the perfect solution right now, but I think many/most of us ultimately want the ability to upgrade.

But hey, to each his own.

+1

I originally started electric with the idea that I would have a simple panel, only boil with it to save propane costs, no pumps.... Look at where I am at today.

as Dgonza9 pointed out. Because I built the smaller control panel first, I was able to cannibalize it and reuse all the parts to upgrade to what I have today.