Do you have a brewing partner? What's your deal?

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m1k3

m1k3

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Hey All-

Background:

I have brewed solo for 3 years now. I have an all grain system and knock out 15 gallons of wort. (I like to brew as much as possible in one batch since it takes about the same time.)

I have a coworker who has been making wine for 3 years. He has no beer brewing experience but he had one commercial beer on tap at home.

After trying a lot of my beer (and listening to my proselytizing) he just made the jump to buy one cornie keg and stepped up to a dual pressure regulator.

I am excited to have someone to brew with and help spread the cost of brewing my larger batch size. (And I am good with only 10 gallons to myself! :drunk:)

Even though I have temp control and more brewing experience, I think the cleanest (and legal) agreement would be that he takes his 5 gallons of wort home and ferments it himself. If it is not fermented it would not appear that I am selling him alcohol (since he will be giving me money or buying ingredients). Also, I bet he will get more enjoyment owning the fermentation process.

If it was my next door neighbor I wouldn't be as concerned but since it is a coworker, I am a bit more paranoid that our brewing agreement does not seem inappropriate or illegal.

Question:
Is it ok to ask $35-40 for a 5 gallon share of wort? (I don't expect that he will be much help in the brewing process or even be there the full 5 hours).

Or should I stick to having him buy ingredients and avoid cash?

Is anyone else in a similar relationship?
 
That's an interesting scenario. I've been brewing for 11 yrs, never had a brewing partner and never had an interesting in getting one. I'd say that if he doesn't want to help make it, then he shouldn't get to have 5 gal of it. If you make the wort and he ferments his share then he needs to get fermenting equipment and have the ability to rack the beer, which sounds like he doesn't want to do. If so, then you become the manufacturer and distributor.

I am not an attorney but giving my "brewing partner" cash in return for 5 gal of beer seems a lot to me like I am buying the beer. I see no difference between him giving you cash or buying $35 of ingredients. To me, it's the same. He's basically buying 5 gal of premium beer at a discount. It's one thing to share your beer with friends, it's another matter to enter into a transaction where now he expects a certain amount of beer in return for his money.

Even if it was legal, I wouldn't do it.
 
You're over-thinking this, but if you want to be unequivocally legal about it...

Have him buy his own yeast and have him ferment his wort at home. You're right - doing your own fermentation definitely gives you more ownership of the process and it really does feel like "your" beer. It's perfectly legal to sell as much wort to as many people as you can. Split the costs of the ingredients, 2/3 you and 1/3 him.
 
And Lando is correct, I was under the assumption that he didn't want to ferment the wort and simply expected a corny every few weeks, or whatever your schedule is. If, however, he can and will ferment and rack, then by all means, make wort and sell it.
 
Thanks for the comments so far. I know I am being a bit over cautious.

If he didn't make wine I would be more concerned getting a brewing partner who doesn't own a kettle!

I believe cost saving is a big motivation for him. He pays $75-80 for a 1/6 barrel (5 gallon) keg. I told him about the LHBS selling shares of wort from their home brew classes for $35.

I'm committed to trying it out with him at least since he spent $350 to get a new tower, keg, dual body regulator, etc.

We are going to have lunch tomorrow and I'll try to pin him down on what his expectations are.
 
You should be good to go.
There'd be no issue with selling malt extract (to my knowledge), and what's malt extract if not reduced wort?
 
Is he going to be there and help with the brew day? If so the money changing hands is simply his share of ingredient cost and there is zero liability in my opinion even if you decide to ferment at your home.
 
I have a friend that we brew together. We started at the same time and shared all the costs from equipment to ingredients. I have gotten into the hobby WAY more then he has and I have dished out more money for equipment lately. But the way we have done it is share the cost of the ingredients brew it together, leave all the wort fermenting at my place, bottle together, and split it in half.
 
After reading some of the legal concerns it sounds more like marriage than brewing! Also, if he can't/won't stick out the brew day or be useful, maybe teach him? I think leg-work on batches like that are more important than money, but I digress, the cash is a factor.
 
Got a buddy at work who's interested in brewing. Schedule-wise he wasn't able to make last brew day, and won't be able to make next brew day, either, but he goes in half on ingredients, and comes to bottle his 5 gallons. Brewing 10 gallons is just more fun for me than brewing 5, so I don't complain.

He'll be around at some point and I'll actually walk him through the process, see how far he wants to go in actual brewing.
 
My idea of a brewing partner would be someone who helps me brew... not someone I sell wort to. I personally would be leery of any other arrangement than splitting the costs of the raw materials, having him around to help me set up, brew, clean, etc. (and knock down a couple of home brews during the course of the evening), then splitting the results the same way we split the cost.

I have a coworker who's interested in learning to brew. Since I'm only set up for five gallon batches, I offered to spend an evening teaching him to brew using my equipment. All it'll cost him is the grain and yeast, and he'll take home a five gallon carboy to babysit until it's ready to bottle.

I'll get more practice, and maybe a brewing partner. If he decides he's into it he can start brewing beside me and accumulating his own gear - starting with a brew kettle.
 
If you're that concerned you should just brew by your lonesome...


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
heckler73 said:
swap for equivalent wine bottles and forget that you're in the USofA - you don't need a lawyer for this.
Click to expand...

Crappy generalization because people in the USA aren't all like that BUT in this case I agree with the latter part of your statement. OP, try to relax about this just a tad...put the fun back into it.


And to answer the actual question, no, I have no one to brew with. :(
 
My brother used to be my brew partner for a few years when we started but then I moved. We could bounce ideas off each other as to what we wanted to brew next, what techniques to try, and just generally life talk. Man I need to brew another batch soon:mug:
 
rocketsan said:
If you're that concerned you should just brew by your lonesome...


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Click to expand...



I agree with this and Hello's follow up post. Brewing is supposed to be fun. Kinda of a downer to preach about how great and rewarding home brewing can be to someone, only to hit said person in the head with a bunch of ground rules and expectations.


I take a back seat when brewing one of my cousin's batches and visa-versa on one of mine. We both still get some of each other's beers in the end, no stress about money, legality, or who's done more/less work that day. Just another flavor of brew to add to our pipelines. Win-win.

My cousin has told me many times how much easier it is when I'm helping him (even if I'm not doing much) during Brew Day. I feel the same way with my batches. He has made some great beers too. I'm sure your coworker has some great tasting wine he might be willing to share for helping him.

Something to think about when you meet him for lunch tomorrow.......
 
I don't want to make it sound like he is disinterested... He spent $300 to upgrade his kegerator to serve from a cornie along side his commercial keg.

He is totally open to what I want to brew at this point.

I am willing to teach as much as he wants to learn. But he gets enough of that at work, I trained him when he came on the team. I'm not his supervisor just the team lead... I guess that is where the weirdness is coming from.

Thanks everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Since I feel you got enough answers about the question in your OP; I'll just answer the questions in your title.

My brew partner is my 2 1/2 year old son. He gets the fun and enjoyment of helping Daddy make beer, and I get to drink all of the beer and try to keep him from adding grass, stones, and twigs to the mash/boil.

So far one of the funniest things he has done is on the first batch he got to help me with it had been sitting in the fermentor for2 weeks so was going down to grab a sample to check the FG. He was following me down the steps and asked "Daddy go check the beer" , I said "Yes", so he then asked "help Daddy check the beer", so I told him "Of course you can help check the beer". I go into the back room where I keep all my brewing stuff and my beers, and noticed he just stopped at the door waiting there. As I got the lid popped off my fermenting bucket and was getting ready to draw a sample I noticed my son had come closer. He looked into the bucket, and then threw his arms into the air and proclaimed "We did it! We got beer!" And then turned back around and walked back into his play area.
 
Would you be worried he'd sue you if you bbq'd together and he got food poisoning?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I have a couple friends who want to brew together, but they just can't escape life's other obligations. Its unfortunate as I'd really enjoy having a brewing partner, but my definition is a lot more casual than what the OP is talking about.

OP I'd say just go for it, see how it works for both of you, then adjust as necessary. Your friend may find he's drinking great beer (and getting an amazing variety) by going with your collaboration. That may give him the confidence or motivation to invest more into it (time, effort) from a hobby perspective.
 
A question for the more legal minded, as was brought up earlier.. If he was to give you cash and take the wort home to ferment it, Is there really a law against selling wort? It's unfermented, no alcohol content, It's not really beer. Am I crazy? probly
 
Trox said:
He looked into the bucket, and then threw his arms into the air and proclaimed "We did it! We got beer!"
Click to expand...

Your son reminds me why I like kids; they are so funny.
I will now make the same proclamation when I am checking on my beer.
I hope my 3 y.o. boy will be as interested as your son.
 
I usually brew solo. I've had friends present on brew day, but helping may be a stretch. I'm particular about how things should be done. I've helped other people on their brew days and that seems to flow better. It depends on the brewers.

I did a group cider crush a few years ago. Too many hands in the pot and I felt shorted. If you are already brewing and already have the gear, a fair split of ingredients and brew day costs makes sense. If you are trying to offset your equipment investment, it could lead to hard feelings down the road.
 
Devilsnight said:
A question for the more legal minded, as was brought up earlier.. If he was to give you cash and take the wort home to ferment it, Is there really a law against selling wort? It's unfermented, no alcohol content, It's not really beer. Am I crazy? probly
Click to expand...

No, there is no law against selling people sugary hoppy water.
 
My buddy and I brew together. We split the cost down the middle. Brewing, fermentation, and bottling is all done at my place but he comes over to help with brewing and bottling. We split the cost down the middle for ingredients and split the bottles. All of the equipment was purchased on my dime but I am happy to have someone to bounce ideas off of and to split the cost of ingredients. I would be brewing alone if he wasn't helping anyways so I don't mind that I bought all of the equipment thus far.
 
LandoLincoln said:
No, there is no law against selling people sugary hoppy water.
Click to expand...

Don't let your count or city health department hear you say that; they figure they're in charge of any food or drink sold in their jurisdiction. ;)
 
Trox said:
My brew partner is my 2 1/2 year old son. He gets the fun and enjoyment of helping Daddy make beer, and I get to drink all of the beer and try to keep him from adding grass, stones, and twigs to the mash/boil.
Click to expand...

I start brewing at around 5AM when I brew, so it's difficult to find a "partner." My partner is my 3.5 yr old son, who usually comes out to the garage around 6:45/7:00AM, typically a little ways into the boil. Originally I had the same fun of trying to keep stones, grass, nails, whatever else he could get his hands on from going in the kettle, he succeeded in getting a stone in once. So, that batch had some "stone fruit" in it, still turned out just fine. Now he's content playing with his bike, coloring, etc and I let him put the hops in now.

I also get the same reaction when I go to check on fermentation, FG, and bottle. As soon as he sees the hydro and the thief he knows I'm going to check and wants to see it.
 
Or you could come to whatever agreement you want, not post it on public forums, and go about your day. Not trying to be a d-bag, but you're worrying about a problem that isn't. There are no home brew police that will show up to your door and ask where all the beer you brew has gone. Sure, if you started selling it to local bars or something and they got busted... yeah, I'd be worried. But to brew a large batch and split it with your buddy? Who's really gonna care?
 
troy2000 said:
Don't let your count or city health department hear you say that; they figure they're in charge of any food or drink sold in their jurisdiction. ;)
Click to expand...

Dude, you need to change your profile picture. I keep reading all of your replies in Jeff Bridges' "Rooster Cogburn" character's voice from True Grit.

Does everyone read my replies in Billy Dee Williams' voice?

If so...

"Works every time!"
 
If you have an interest in learning to make wine, or at least drinking wine, you could REALLY work out a good swap here.

He will likely be thrilled to share his wine, and the goodwill you will build by showing him how to brew beer, and "giving" him his first batch should more than pay off in the future.

Lets think to the future. He's still new to brewing beer, so if you send a bottle of your best batches to him, and/or perhaps 1 or 2 of your tried and true recipes for him to try, as a swap for wine and/or beer hes made, dude you are getting the better end of that deal! Here's why:

Wine takes soooo much longer than beer, especially after you factor in letting it age. If hes making it from whole fruit, thats $$$$$, too. You get wine without needing to be patient and have one of your fermenters locked up for months at a time
 
Tell him when you brew and to be there when you do.

Have him shadow you and explain the brewing process.

Show him how recipes are formulated and how to weight out hops and grains.

Have him clean out the mashtun.

Have him add hops and let him watch how you cool and rack to FV

After all of that if hes still interested I would just toss him the first batch for free and have him come back and help for future brews, having him split the cost of ingridients while also helping out with labor seems like a fair trade off for me.

If he just wants to have YOU brew HIM beer then charge him the 50$ a keg and whats done is done.



Illegal....whats that?
 
I thought I'd post a conclusion... in case anyone was interested in how my situation worked out.

At least to start out it will go something like this:

It's not going to be the typical brew buddy partnership where we get together and brew. The equipment is 100% mine, I do the recipe formulation and probably all of the brewing/clean up.

I usually brew on Saturday morning from 6am to 11am... he probably won't come over until I am done or almost done. (He is invited over early if he wants and I am willing to teach.)

But I don't expect much help, if any. Although lifting the mash tun to dump it is a two man job that I've been doing on my own! (maybe I can get him to help with that)

The first batch will be a stout. I'll fill his carboy and provide a packet of dry yeast. He will ferment it at home and rack into his own keg.

He is willing to pay cash or ingredients, what ever I want. I am happy with the deal. Things might change over time. It will get me to brew on a more consistent schedule, brew large batches (which I enjoy) and cut the cost in half. (Also, I won't have to give him any more free beer!)

Thanks for all the replies.
 
Looks like it'll work out pretty well. Too bad he won't help you more on brew day. I figured that'd be a part of the deal/fun of having a brew partner.
 
LandoLincoln said:
Dude, you need to change your profile picture. I keep reading all of your replies in Jeff Bridges' "Rooster Cogburn" character's voice from True Grit.

Does everyone read my replies in Billy Dee Williams' voice?

If so...

"Works every time!"
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that's really a picture of me. I suppose I could go back to my old one, but it's about ten years old and probably no improvement (below).

And no, I don't sound like Jeff Bridges.... or at least, not like Jeff Bridges as Rooster Cogburn. :)

old avatar base.jpg
 
LandoLincoln said:
Dude, you need to change your profile picture. I keep reading all of your replies in Jeff Bridges' "Rooster Cogburn" character's voice from True Grit.

Does everyone read my replies in Billy Dee Williams' voice?

If so...

"Works every time!"
Click to expand...

:off:


Hahaha! Yep, I do.






Sorry for the hi-jack.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Today was the brew day. He paid for all the ingredients (and I have some base malt left over). He brought over 4 commercial beers for me to try! He showed up after all the wort was collected but before the 60 minute hops went in. He helped me dump the mash tun and clean up a bit.

So, I am totally happy with this arrangement. He took home his BetterBottle with 5 gallons and will pitch the yeast himself.

I got 10 gallons of wort.

Thanks everyone for your advice.
 
Did you share with your attorney as well? ;)
Sounds like he's a good guy and what you have is a guy you sell wort to and not so much a brew buddy. Not a bad deal.
 

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