Do lagers bother you?

[Mainer]

And lagers, we should specify, are as great as ales. If you created this thread to b*tch about macro lagers like Budweiser, then cool. But man are you missing out if you're ruling out the many other German lager styles, etc. out there. Don't blame the yeast.

Oh, I'm definitely not dumping on lagers. I *mostly* brew lagers, since the cold Maine climate gives me natural lager temps in my cellar 6-7 months of the year.
I've currently got a Dogwood pilsner, a Bamberg rauch, a Concord gape helles, a Baltic Porter, and a Maple Vienna Lager in various stages of fermentation and conditioning in my cellar.

 

[bajaedition]

Interesting, I *don't* strive for repeatability. I always want to try something new. I don't use fermentation temperature controls, so if this winter is warmer than last, my rauchbier is going to have some fruity notes to it, and I'm okay with that. I *want* my 2017 Baltic Porter to be a little different from my 2016 Baltic Porter. If I'm re-brewing a saison, I might improvise the hop schedule just to see what happens. If I've got some rye lying around, it might find its way into my IPA.

I guess that gets to the heart of the disagreement. Some people approach brewing as a science, others as improvisation. To me, recipes are guidelines and consistency is boring.

If you cannot strive for repeat ability then how do you even know if you can produce the exact product twice?
The only way you can prove you have the ability to do such is to make the EXACT product repeatedly, otherwise you are just doing whatever comes out at the end.
If you cannot repeat, then you are not good at what you do.
Ever notice how may times a musician plays a scale?
a baseball Pitcher throws a ball in practice?
an artist practices brush strokes?

And Why? So he can repeat it time after time after time, otherwise he would not be in the position he is in.

Time and practice is what it takes to be good.

I am not judging your brewing, I am just saying a fact. If you cannot repeat it, then you are not good at doing it.

EDIT: I hope you do not take this post like I am bagging on your brewing, I am simply trying to press a point about repeat-ability.

 

[bajaedition]

Sure, sure. I'm just saying that demand is not necessarily the best measure of quality. The big breweries' success is as attributable to their mastery of mass distribution, skill at marketing, and ability to purchase ingredients at volume as to their ability to produce a consistent product.

I totally agree with you

 

[Mainer]

I am not judging your brewing, I am just saying a fact. If you cannot repeat it, then you are not good at doing it.

This is decidedly an opinion, not a fact. Yeast are living organisms, and allowing them to do what they want is a choice, not a sign I'm a bad brewer. Consistency is an aesthetic decision, not an objective measure of quality.

 

[Mainer]

If you cannot strive for repeat ability then how do you even know if you can produce the exact product twice?
The only way you can prove you have the ability to do such is to make the EXACT product repeatedly, otherwise you are just doing whatever comes out at the end.
If you cannot repeat, then you are not good at what you do.
Ever notice how may times a musician plays a scale?
a baseball Pitcher throws a ball in practice?
an artist practices brush strokes?

And Why? So he can repeat it time after time after time, otherwise he would not be in the position he is in.

Time and practice is what it takes to be good.

I am not judging your brewing, I am just saying a fact. If you cannot repeat it, then you are not good at doing it.

EDIT: I hope you do not take this post like I am bagging on your brewing, I am simply trying to press a point about repeat-ability.

And I believe I get your point; if I were ever looking to sell my product, I'd need to consistently make the same beer every time. Coors can't be like, "Hey guys, wouldn't it be wild if we tried EKG in this batch this time?"
But I'm not them. That's what makes me a homebrewer. And I prefer homebrew and small-batch breweries specifically *because* I want to be surprised. I aspire to diversity, not consistency.
I'm not saying they suck. I'm just saying they bore me.

 

[bajaedition]

This is decidedly an opinion, not a fact. Yeast are living organisms, and allowing them to do what they want is a choice, not a sign I'm a bad brewer. Consistency is an aesthetic decision, not an objective measure of quality.

I have no doubt in your ability

that is not the point here, I had fear the sentence would be misinterpreted.

Yeast are predictable however, this strain will do this when in a medium of this at this ph at this temperature, that is what the Macro brewers depend on. They also are meticulous in selection of yeast off slants to keep there strains pure. In ways they do stuff we as homebrewers would never do, unless we just set up full size labs. A brewer at a macro brewery is a chemist.
They also have pilot breweries where they are allowed to make whatever they want. I have been to 2 of those in Golden Colorado. Some impressive stuff going on there.

My drive to get my product gives me my satisfaction, as said I get told I am anal all the time. Your product is more varied than mine and probably involves skills I do not have, such as being able to predict results in different styles of brewing because you have tried so much. My hat is off to that. Where I would obsess over every detail, you would shoot for the style using knowledge gained by trying different stuff. Each of us would produce a good beer, I would move on to the next very slowly as I would keep experimenting with the one before moving on.

That is the beauty of this hobby, we all raise to the level we want, And it can be argued ones obsession is his own folly

 

[Mainer]

I bet you wouldn't like a lot of my brews. Occasionally I make a beer that's a hot mess. Like when I tried to make a Berliner, but used red wheat instead of white and happened to get a cold snap so it didn't sour. I ended up with a bland, watery amber wheat beer. So I tried to salvage it with some raspberries and brett into secondary and waited to see what would happen.

But just as often, I make a beer with some delightful combination I tripped over by accident. I threw some rye and spruce tips in an IPA last year. It ended up being not at all what I expected, but really good nonetheless.

You're right, that is the beauty of this hobby. I think we have very different objectives in our brewing. It's great that homebrewing can accommodate not only a range of beer styles, but a range of brewing styles.

 

[bajaedition]

Unfortunately we are about as geographically possible, distanced from each other as can be and still be on the same Continent in the same country

 

[Mainer]

Unfortunately we are about as geographically possible, distanced from each other as can be and still be on the same Continent in the same country

Well, if you ever visit Maine, bring some homebrew. I will too. We'll share a flight.