DMS – Who’s Had It? How (successfully) Have You Coped With It?

[BierMuncher]

I’m using more Pilsner malt in my lighter ale recipes now and wonder about the “real” issue of dimethyl sulfide (DMS.)

Has anyone experienced first hand and how did you deal with it?

 

[Cheesefood]

Midol.

No, wait. That's PMS. Sorry.

 

[Soulive]

You can do longer boils to help get rid of it. I have done 90min boils when using Pils...

 

[Ryanh1801]

I use Pilsner malt for the majority of my beers, never had a problem with it.

 

[Buford]

I had DMS issues with Pils in 60 minute boils. Like was said earlier in this thread, 90 minute boils help a lot.

 

[Beerrific]

I think I have had trouble with DMS. I did a partial mash batch with pilsner extract and 4lbs pilsner malt. I took no precautions, chilled slowly. I could taste the corn flavor in the young beer but after a while it went a way. Made a hefeweizen with pilsner malt and could again taste the DMS.

My next hefe I boiled hard for 90 minutes and chilled fast, no issues. I don't like boiling for 90 minutes because I lose too much volume (small pot). I am planning a lager that I am using 95% pilsner malt, I am going to boil for 30 minutes, add some water back, then boil for 60 minutes.

 

[Drunkensatyr]

Never had a problem with it in the finished product, bud damn I can not stand the smell of pils malts boiling!

 

[FlyingHorse]

The only time I've used Pils was in a recent Hefe (50/50 with wheat). Boiled for 90 minutes, but I still get a slight hint of DMS. I really only notce it on the first sip, then it fades into the background.

 

[WOP31]

I have always heard long, hard rolling boils with no lid is the best way to ensure that you don't get a DMS off flavor in your beers.


Cheers

 

[Bobby_M]

The BJCP guys noted DMS in my Blonde that used only 2-row. "Boil for at least 60 minutes and uncover the pot" was the suggestion. I do 70 minute boils and never cover the pot, not to mention that I recirculate my chilled wort to drop the entire pot down below 130F in less than 5 minutes. I'm always trying to taste for cooked corn but never taste it. Mmmm corn.

 

[BierMuncher]

The BJCP guys noted DMS in my Blonde that used only 2-row. "Boil for at least 60 minutes and uncover the pot" was the suggestion. I do 70 minute boils and never cover the pot, not to mention that I recirculate my chilled wort to drop the entire pot down below 130F in less than 5 minutes. I'm always trying to taste for cooked corn but never taste it. Mmmm corn.

So if it tastes a bit like corn...does that qualify it as a cream ale?

 

[Drunkensatyr]

Or Jenkem................

 

[TexLaw]

I'm just like the others. I do a 90 minute boil and a quick chill. I have no problems.

Bobby, on that blonde, I blame it on the judges. So many beers are hopped to all hell these days, many judges that have only been around for 5 years or so don't know what to do with a beer that isn't. Many taste or smell anything slightly grainy, like a blonde might be, and they think "DMS" or some other off flavor or aroma. They are used to hops or, I guess, the strong roasted or darm malt aromas of stouts, bocks, and imperial anythings.


TL

 

[Dr Malt]

A good rolling boil for 60 minutes or more is important to reduce DMS levels in finished wort, but just as important is cooling your wort as fast as possible once you have finished boiling, assuming you do not want DMS/corn flavor. There is plenty of what they call DMS precursor in malt and wort which is converted to free DMS and driven off in the boil. However, there is still precursor in the finished wort and in hot, non-boiling wort this is converted to DMS but not driven off. It results in DMS in your beer. The conversion of DMS precursor to DMS is dependent on temperature so the sooner you cool your wort to fermentation temperatures the better, unless of course you want some DMS for your particular beer style.

Dr Malt

 

[olllllo]

Perhaps the DMS is getting caught on the jaggedy edge of your keggle.


Does that joke ever get old?

 

[BierMuncher]

Does that joke ever get old?

Never...

Though I should clarify that I don't have any DMS problems (yet)...I was just wondering how to make sure I don't in the future.

 

[Chriso]

OK, I'm speaking purely hypothetically here, I've not used Pils malt for anything yet.

But... Assuming I did, would it be disadvantageous to use my counter-flow chiller as opposed to an IC?

I ask because it has come up numerous times how it helps to get a good cold break (theoretically followed by whirlpooling to control the trub).... but this can't happen with a CFC.

What do people do to compensate for CFCs? Or does everyone use ICs and I'm unwittingly some caveman freak for doing so? (JK on that last part )

 

[Kaiser]

I do 70 minute boils and never cover the pot, not to mention that I recirculate my chilled wort to drop the entire pot down below 130F in less than 5 minutes.

What is your boil-off rate? You want to be above 8% for DMS removal.
Could the DMS have come from fermentation? Some infections can produce DMS.

What do people do to compensate for CFCs? Or does everyone use ICs and I'm unwittingly some caveman freak for doing so? (JK on that last part )

Boil longer. Most brewers seem to have ICs though.

I can notice DMS in some mirco brews once in a while. Once it was as bad as drinking the juice from a can of corn. That was at a brewfest and the one serving it didn't even notice when I mentioned it to him.

Kai

 

[the_bird]

Now, you've got me a little worried.

I've been planning a Berliner Weiss in the not-too-distant future. Recipes are usually ~60% pils, 40% wheat malt. But - it's a 15 minute boil, tops (often only 10 minutes, sometimes no boil at all).

How on earth do you avoid having a huge amount of DMS in that scenario? It's not part of the flavor profile as best I can tell. There are barely any hops to cover anything up. The OG's really low (1.032-1.035), is that the key to DMS not being an issue? Or, does the lacto have an impact?

 

[Bobby_M]

OK, I'm speaking purely hypothetically here, I've not used Pils malt for anything yet.

But... Assuming I did, would it be disadvantageous to use my counter-flow chiller as opposed to an IC?

I ask because it has come up numerous times how it helps to get a good cold break (theoretically followed by whirlpooling to control the trub).... but this can't happen with a CFC.

What do people do to compensate for CFCs? Or does everyone use ICs and I'm unwittingly some caveman freak for doing so? (JK on that last part )

Two things you can do. First is run a pump so you get the wort through the chiller and into the fermenter as fast as possible. Of course, this can usually only be done if your cooling water is cold enough to allow for the wort to be run quickly through. Second, since I've heard DMS production basically halts at 140F or lower, I've recirculated the cooled output of my CFC back into the kettle. The whole wort temp will drop to about 120 very quickly. Then I'll divert the output of the chiller into the fermenter. I only do this when the tap temp is just a bit too warm to run the wort full bore into the fermenter (anything over 70F).

 

[Bobby_M]

What is your boil-off rate? You want to be above 8% for DMS removal.
Could the DMS have come from fermentation? Some infections can produce DMS.


Kai

I believe I have BTP set to .9 gallons per hour and I always hit the post boil volume.

 

[Chriso]

Two things you can do. First is run a pump so you get the wort through the chiller and into the fermenter as fast as possible. Of course, this can usually only be done if your cooling water is cold enough to allow for the wort to be run quickly through. Second, since I've heard DMS production basically halts at 140F or lower, I've recirculated the cooled output of my CFC back into the kettle. The whole wort temp will drop to about 120 very quickly. Then I'll divert the output of the chiller into the fermenter. I only do this when the tap temp is just a bit too warm to run the wort full bore into the fermenter (anything over 70F).

Good ideas - one question, in the 2nd half where you're diverting cooled wort back to the kettle, are you still using a pump? Or would an acceptible substitute be to cool ~1 gal of wort as quickly as possible, into the sanitized fermenter, dump it back into the kettle vigorously (free aeration!) and then continue siphoning through the CFC and into the fermenter?

Sub-question of that is, once I've dumped it back in, and assuming I put my sanitized lid right back on top of the fermenter immediately after dumping, should I have to re-sanitize? Or is that over-paranoia of sanitization?

Thanks for the suggestion, I will probably try this when I brew this weekend! (It might be a great excuse for a shiny new March pump, too )

 

[Bobby_M]

It's hard to know exactly how much cooled wort needs to be added back in because I just let the pump take care of it for 5-10 minutes in an 11 gallon batch. I wouldn't spash too much because your kettle wort is still at 200+ and hot side aeration is not good. I wouldn't resanitize the feremnter just because you dumped some wort out.

 

[FlyGuy]

Good ideas - one question, in the 2nd half where you're diverting cooled wort back to the kettle, are you still using a pump? Or would an acceptible substitute be to cool ~1 gal of wort as quickly as possible, into the sanitized fermenter, dump it back into the kettle vigorously (free aeration!) and then continue siphoning through the CFC and into the fermenter?

I think the idea is to return the cooled wort back into the kettle quickly (i.e. with a pump) so that it rapidly drops the wort temperature in the kettle to reduce the production of DMS. Collecting wort then dumping it back in might work, but probably not as well for two reasons:
1. the lag time to collect the wort represents opportunity for DMS production
2. aerating the hot wort in the kettle *may* be a bad idea (without resurrecting an HSA debate) -- if it can be avoided, all the better.

I would think that if you don't have a good pump to recirc, the next best option is what Bobby said first -- get your wort through the chiller and into the fermenter as fast as possible. One of those $10 Pythons (i.e. home made Wort Wizard) would probably do the trick.

 

[Chriso]

2. aerating the hot wort in the kettle *may* be a bad idea (without resurrecting an HSA debate) -- if it can be avoided, all the better.

Oops, sh!t, didn't mean to open that can of worms!! Augh!

Thanks for the tips