The bulkhead for the racking arm by the way, was from brewers hardware.com. 1/2".
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DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters
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eaglerisingbrew
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Right on. Thanks for the note bck and good luck with your move.
As I mentioned, I have most of the documents printed out from the now defunct plastic conical site. I do not know if I have a full set or not. I can see what I still have available and maybe find a way to share with anyone interested.
Got my probes swapped out. Just need time to plug them in and test it out now. Still need to finish up the last two lids/coil assembly and apply insulation. Hoping to use it for my next batch of beer.
I'll post up some final pics when it's completed, which will be very soon.
TD
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Got my probes swapped out. Just need time to plug them in and test it out now. Still need to finish up the last two lids/coil assembly and apply insulation. Hoping to use it for my next batch of beer.
I'll post up some final pics when it's completed, which will be very soon.
TD
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Looks like I probably threw out a bunch of the plans. Most is in the thread. I'd be willing to help anyone out with what I have left, and a parts list.
So last night I tested it out. Only had one conical hooked up, and the reservoir only partly filled. Took several minutes to chill the reservoir bath and then started chilling the conical. My glycol has a blue tint in it. I did not see any leakage into the conical filled with water, nor from the conical itself! Did some work on last two lids. So far so good! Seems to be working and I couldn't be happier! Need to finish up the insulation and the last two conical lids and finally, the racking dip tubes.
Need to figure out how to get those really cool looking temp graphs going on!
One glitch so far.
I have the PID display modules installed. They are not getting data from the BCS. It seems that three connections need to be made: exp 0, exp 1, and also ground! Problem here is that the PID "ground" is really its 12VDC- and the BCS ground is not apparently a 12VDC-. For one thing, the BCS uses 6 VDC I think (could be 5). I had thought this was going to pose an issue for me long ago. I thought I could throw away the BCS wallwart power supply. And run it off the 12VDC supply in the control panel (which operates the driver board, and powers the PID display modules. I bought a pack of resistors (100k ohm, 1/4 watt) and was going to fashion a voltage reduction circuit from them to power the driver board, PID display, and also the BCS. I got a little breadboard that I was planning to use for this, but I can't seem to get an accurate voltage reading. Maybe I just buy a potentiometer and wire that up and adjust to the proper voltage. Does anybody know the max power consumption on the BCS so I can get the right sized pot?
Seems I might need to go trolling the BCS forums...
Might post a new thread about this...
TD
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So last night I tested it out. Only had one conical hooked up, and the reservoir only partly filled. Took several minutes to chill the reservoir bath and then started chilling the conical. My glycol has a blue tint in it. I did not see any leakage into the conical filled with water, nor from the conical itself! Did some work on last two lids. So far so good! Seems to be working and I couldn't be happier! Need to finish up the insulation and the last two conical lids and finally, the racking dip tubes.
Need to figure out how to get those really cool looking temp graphs going on!
One glitch so far.
I have the PID display modules installed. They are not getting data from the BCS. It seems that three connections need to be made: exp 0, exp 1, and also ground! Problem here is that the PID "ground" is really its 12VDC- and the BCS ground is not apparently a 12VDC-. For one thing, the BCS uses 6 VDC I think (could be 5). I had thought this was going to pose an issue for me long ago. I thought I could throw away the BCS wallwart power supply. And run it off the 12VDC supply in the control panel (which operates the driver board, and powers the PID display modules. I bought a pack of resistors (100k ohm, 1/4 watt) and was going to fashion a voltage reduction circuit from them to power the driver board, PID display, and also the BCS. I got a little breadboard that I was planning to use for this, but I can't seem to get an accurate voltage reading. Maybe I just buy a potentiometer and wire that up and adjust to the proper voltage. Does anybody know the max power consumption on the BCS so I can get the right sized pot?
Seems I might need to go trolling the BCS forums...
Might post a new thread about this...
TD
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ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
What I did to help prevent any glycol leakage directly into the conical was use Bore Through compression fittings on the lid so that the glycol connections to stainless tubing are on outside the conical. Just made me feel better that there are no connections inside the conical to worry about.
Good idea. Too late for me though. How did you get air tight seal? silicone?
I think would be easier to check for leaking connections would be to operate the the conicals empty and see if any of the blue tinted glycol drips in the conical with dump valve open and a paper towel or something beneath the valve. It's possible these could work themselves loose over time and might be prudent to check them periodically.
TD
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I think would be easier to check for leaking connections would be to operate the the conicals empty and see if any of the blue tinted glycol drips in the conical with dump valve open and a paper towel or something beneath the valve. It's possible these could work themselves loose over time and might be prudent to check them periodically.
TD
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ejluttmann
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Still working on making it completely air tight but I think I'm good enough right now for a bubbler. What I did first was unscrew and apply silicon around the lid insert. Then I purchased some large silicon orings that I'm using when I screw on the lid. Right now it's air tight enough that the bubbler will be the least resistance to escaping co2.
I did upgrade the tank lids to the ones which have a removable labyrinth breather so that I don't have to remove the glycol part chiller connections in case I want access to add additions or such (http://www.spraysmarter.com/liquid-...-threaded-tank-lid-12-inch-male-threaded.html). If I find that I don't need to remove or open the tank lids for cleaning, I'm going to try to use a cip spray ball, then I might just try to silicon the lid on and just use the labyrinth breather lid for access.
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I did upgrade the tank lids to the ones which have a removable labyrinth breather so that I don't have to remove the glycol part chiller connections in case I want access to add additions or such (http://www.spraysmarter.com/liquid-...-threaded-tank-lid-12-inch-male-threaded.html). If I find that I don't need to remove or open the tank lids for cleaning, I'm going to try to use a cip spray ball, then I might just try to silicon the lid on and just use the labyrinth breather lid for access.
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Would think the labyrinth breather would just be another point for air intrusion, but would also be handy for hopping, etc in the primary. I'd like to see some pictures of your setup if you don't mind.
TD
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TD
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ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
Yes, it could be ... I've got silicon orings for it too. Again, my hope is that I can ultimately seal the lids with silicone and only have to use the labyrinth breather. Very long term I'd like to switch to SS conicals.
Later when I'm home I'll take some close up pictures and post them.
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Later when I'm home I'll take some close up pictures and post them.
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Thanks!
The breather is a nice addition. You could then permanently seal the lid and just have to deal with sealing the smaller breather, which would probably be much easier. CIP is feasible. Long term I may go over to stainless as well. The lids on the plastic and the inner lip of the plastic tank have lots of scratches from modification and cutting and caulking. I do have concerns about lagering in these tanks, which is one of my plans and the reason that I built it. Stainless will be easier I think. I have been looking at some options, and the bru-gear is the leader right now in my mind, though I prefer a bolt on leg over the welded on legs. Ironically, the blichman conicals are nearly perfectly sized though. Too bad that they are so expensive. More options seem to become available with time. Right now I just want to get everything working and begin using them. Maybe over the next year, every few months, I could pickup a SS conical and convert one by one over the next year to spread out the cost a bit. Will see.
TD
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The breather is a nice addition. You could then permanently seal the lid and just have to deal with sealing the smaller breather, which would probably be much easier. CIP is feasible. Long term I may go over to stainless as well. The lids on the plastic and the inner lip of the plastic tank have lots of scratches from modification and cutting and caulking. I do have concerns about lagering in these tanks, which is one of my plans and the reason that I built it. Stainless will be easier I think. I have been looking at some options, and the bru-gear is the leader right now in my mind, though I prefer a bolt on leg over the welded on legs. Ironically, the blichman conicals are nearly perfectly sized though. Too bad that they are so expensive. More options seem to become available with time. Right now I just want to get everything working and begin using them. Maybe over the next year, every few months, I could pickup a SS conical and convert one by one over the next year to spread out the cost a bit. Will see.
TD
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ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
Bru-gear fermentors do look good. I too just want to get this up and running right now ... the fact I'm already looking a upgrading to SS probably doesn't say much for plastic but it will do for now and was by far cheaper to start. If I can reuse the coils in the conical then everything else I invested in will directly transfer over to a SS conical setup. At least that's how I'm justifying it in my head 
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ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
Here are a few random pictures I have. Let me know if you want to see something else.
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Got my temp displays working. Had to ground the BCS GND terminal to the chassis ground, and connect the 12VDC - to the chassis ground as well. I was concerned it was going to screw something up but it works!
More work on lids, almost finished (except insulation)! I think I'll probably refrain from any further posts until my final pics unless I run into any problems.
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More work on lids, almost finished (except insulation)! I think I'll probably refrain from any further posts until my final pics unless I run into any problems.
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MesterBrygger
Member
You guys are just amazing at this. I've followed your post, and I wish I had the same space to play with.
Keep up the great work. :rockin:
Keep up the great work. :rockin:
Well, I am back in the basement working on the final steps of the project. I was able to find nearly ALL the printouts (in color) from the now defunct plastic conical website. I have I believe the entire site except for part of the Controller part 2 printout. The only part of that I still have is the picto-graphic wiring diagrams. That seems to be the most important anyway, aside from the parts list, which might still be available, and I might be able to help with anyone wanting the plans. Some are bit worn, dog-eared, wrinkled, etc, but still easily legible.
edit- also found a list of all the parts for everything that I compiled from the site and printed out. It includes the parts for the controller part 2 section that I'm missing a part of.
Now back to work!
TD
edit- also found a list of all the parts for everything that I compiled from the site and printed out. It includes the parts for the controller part 2 section that I'm missing a part of.
Now back to work!
TD
bellinmi88
Well-Known Member
Packet, I have room on my web server if you want to zip all the files and email to me I will post them and provide a link to it off this thread.
Questions.
During leak testing, I plumbed up some loop back tubes for two of my tanks. There is a short piece of silicone tubing connected to the supply and return limbs of the glycol coolant using the camlock fittings. This was done to test for leaks in the PEX and ball valve plumbing prior to proceeding with the build and adding insulation. Problem I have now is that when I eventually turned off the system (I had also been running the AC and cooling one tank as a trial run), that glycol coolant backed up into the loop back silicone tubing. There is also still coolant in the reinforced vinyl tubing that was chilling the one completed tank. I don't want to spill any glycol, but the lines need to be removed. I think that the reservoir and the primed pump and lines are preventing flow. I do not believe that the manifold is pressurized because the pressure gauge on the reservoir outflow is at zero. I have a feeling I'm going to be mopping up some glycol one way or another. My best thought is to disconnect the coolant hose from the pump on the inside of the reservoir, which is somewhat of a PITA.
I was thinking about connecting my system to a UPS. I already have it plugged to a surge protector for the hard wired Ethernet and power. I know there was commentary about power interruptions spoiling the fermentation for an few of us who've built this. I've read the entire wiki for the BCS, but I don't really see how to set it up so it will resume its previous settings after a power loss. In my situation, I have a backup generator that will automatically fire up for my whole home if there is a power loss. It takes about a minute for power to be restored. I know that there is no reasonable UPS that can power the AC unit, and probably not the pump either. The BCS should be easy to keep powered. I think that a simple UPS might be an easy way to keep the BCS working in power outage situation assuming that I don't have the misfortune of the intermittent pump or AC unit coming on before the generator kick in, OR if it's running while the power goes out. I am even considering an internal 6v rechargeable lantern battery wired in parallel with the brick PSU of the BCS, but it would probably need some sort of logic circuit to connect this and have it work properly. Maybe this is all unnecessary if there is a way to get the BCS to resume it previous state after a power outage.
By the way, is there a counter or something for the number of builds on this so far? I think at least 5 confirmed builds, including a couple that are one tank or non chilled.
Thanks
TD
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During leak testing, I plumbed up some loop back tubes for two of my tanks. There is a short piece of silicone tubing connected to the supply and return limbs of the glycol coolant using the camlock fittings. This was done to test for leaks in the PEX and ball valve plumbing prior to proceeding with the build and adding insulation. Problem I have now is that when I eventually turned off the system (I had also been running the AC and cooling one tank as a trial run), that glycol coolant backed up into the loop back silicone tubing. There is also still coolant in the reinforced vinyl tubing that was chilling the one completed tank. I don't want to spill any glycol, but the lines need to be removed. I think that the reservoir and the primed pump and lines are preventing flow. I do not believe that the manifold is pressurized because the pressure gauge on the reservoir outflow is at zero. I have a feeling I'm going to be mopping up some glycol one way or another. My best thought is to disconnect the coolant hose from the pump on the inside of the reservoir, which is somewhat of a PITA.
I was thinking about connecting my system to a UPS. I already have it plugged to a surge protector for the hard wired Ethernet and power. I know there was commentary about power interruptions spoiling the fermentation for an few of us who've built this. I've read the entire wiki for the BCS, but I don't really see how to set it up so it will resume its previous settings after a power loss. In my situation, I have a backup generator that will automatically fire up for my whole home if there is a power loss. It takes about a minute for power to be restored. I know that there is no reasonable UPS that can power the AC unit, and probably not the pump either. The BCS should be easy to keep powered. I think that a simple UPS might be an easy way to keep the BCS working in power outage situation assuming that I don't have the misfortune of the intermittent pump or AC unit coming on before the generator kick in, OR if it's running while the power goes out. I am even considering an internal 6v rechargeable lantern battery wired in parallel with the brick PSU of the BCS, but it would probably need some sort of logic circuit to connect this and have it work properly. Maybe this is all unnecessary if there is a way to get the BCS to resume it previous state after a power outage.
By the way, is there a counter or something for the number of builds on this so far? I think at least 5 confirmed builds, including a couple that are one tank or non chilled.
Thanks
TD
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TD,
In System Settings, Miscellaneous System Settings, there are options to force outputs at startup. Just make sure that you want these to always come on after power failure. If you're not currently fermenting anything, you may not want outputs to come on.
In System Settings, Miscellaneous System Settings, there are options to force outputs at startup. Just make sure that you want these to always come on after power failure. If you're not currently fermenting anything, you may not want outputs to come on.
Gotcha!
Found a way to drain the tubing of coolant. Lesson for others and possible solution to over pressurized coolant coils.
So today, I sealed the lids. I decided to try and omit using the screws and used a ton of silicone. figured the screws would probably be working against me. Anyway, step two of sealant tomorrow. Then connect the last two coils and done (except for insulation - which is probably unnecessary for doing ale fermentations).
Anyway on to my advice. So while trying to drain the coolant loopback hoses, and the connecting hoses for the one finished tank I decided to relieve some back pressure by disconnecting the pump from its output. I left the hose handy so I wouldn't need to reach into the glycol bath. My cooler connections go through the cooler lid by the way. Then I decided to enter BCS manual mode and turn output 1 on to drain the loopback tube. WOOSH! glycol goes through the pump because it is asserted by enabling the output 1!!! the handy hose I left disconnected from the pump output was blasting glycol on my drywalled basement. I immediately hit the mouse again and lost maybe a pint or two at most. What a mess though! Then I thought after some clean-up, unplug the pump AC plug from the control panel and do the same. This enables easy draining of the connecting hoses. You could even do a similar thing to depressurize the cold coolant coils to prevent overpressurization if you remove them while still cold. Un-plug the pump and turn output 1 or whichever tank it is to ON, and the coolant should drain by gravity hopefully. As an alternate way to solve the pressurized coolant in the coil problem, place it in a fridge or freezer to "shrink" the coolant and then try connecting after an hour or two.
Planning an Oktoberfest for the weekend if I can manage and ferment in one of my tanks!
Pics soon! (Seems I cannot resist posting...)
TD
Found a way to drain the tubing of coolant. Lesson for others and possible solution to over pressurized coolant coils.
So today, I sealed the lids. I decided to try and omit using the screws and used a ton of silicone. figured the screws would probably be working against me. Anyway, step two of sealant tomorrow. Then connect the last two coils and done (except for insulation - which is probably unnecessary for doing ale fermentations).
Anyway on to my advice. So while trying to drain the coolant loopback hoses, and the connecting hoses for the one finished tank I decided to relieve some back pressure by disconnecting the pump from its output. I left the hose handy so I wouldn't need to reach into the glycol bath. My cooler connections go through the cooler lid by the way. Then I decided to enter BCS manual mode and turn output 1 on to drain the loopback tube. WOOSH! glycol goes through the pump because it is asserted by enabling the output 1!!! the handy hose I left disconnected from the pump output was blasting glycol on my drywalled basement. I immediately hit the mouse again and lost maybe a pint or two at most. What a mess though! Then I thought after some clean-up, unplug the pump AC plug from the control panel and do the same. This enables easy draining of the connecting hoses. You could even do a similar thing to depressurize the cold coolant coils to prevent overpressurization if you remove them while still cold. Un-plug the pump and turn output 1 or whichever tank it is to ON, and the coolant should drain by gravity hopefully. As an alternate way to solve the pressurized coolant in the coil problem, place it in a fridge or freezer to "shrink" the coolant and then try connecting after an hour or two.
Planning an Oktoberfest for the weekend if I can manage and ferment in one of my tanks!
Pics soon! (Seems I cannot resist posting...)
TD
So I'm basically done now. Need to clean and finish some insulation. Otherwise operational. Sure that I'll have lid sealing issues and still need to connect the blow off hoses.
TD
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TD
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ClaudiusB
Well-Known Member
ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
Everything hooked up, doing a trial run today ... Just using all water for the test and limiting it to 50 degrees in the cooler. So far, so good. I'll add glycol next and test the system down to mid 30s.
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Looks good!
I did more work on mine. Basically all done except for the conical insulation, which I've started to cut and trim. Hope I can get the material for all three using three sheet of neoprene. I didn't make a cut-list to see if I will succeed with that plan or not. Wrapped the lizard cord on the bases of the conicals should I ever decide I need to heat them. They are only 25 watts. Not sure how much heating they will be capable of.
Had a few questions for the folks who are using their systems.
How do you keep the thermometers from coming out of the thermowells in the conicals? It might be desirable to make them removable, so I don't want to use anything that I cannot undo later.
How effective is the CIP ball at cleaning the interior of the conical and the coils? Does it clean the lid too? It is my understanding that it is also used to sanitize the conical. What is the procedure? I'm thinking it's probably something like this:
1. Fill bucket with hot water and PBW, connect and recirculate for 5-20 minutes.
2. Drain, dump, and rinse with recirculation for a few minutes with tap water.
3. Fill bucket with StarSan solution, connect and recirculate for 2-3 minutes, drain and drip dry.
How do those times look?
So what have folks been doing? The drying part is supposed to be what matters the most in killing things. However, my experience in homebrewing has been that prolonged soaking is effective without necessarily a drying phase. Trying to dry out a sealed conical seem like it's not going to work since there can be no evaporation.
Seems to me by the way, that sealing the lids of the conicals without using the screws is easier. The one tank I used screws on, the silicone around the screw heads doesn't stay, and I haven't even really started using the tanks yet. Plus seems to offer a better contact area for an o ring or gasket without the screw heads.
Any photos of how folks applied the insulation to be able to read to volume markings?
Last question. Airlocks. I have blow off tubes setup. Attempting to use silicone tubing and share a common bucket of water for an airtrap seems like a recipe for spilling the water. I'm using an old PBW 4# jar for now. Maybe I need something heavier. Where to place it is sort of an issue. What are others doing?
Thanks
TD
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I did more work on mine. Basically all done except for the conical insulation, which I've started to cut and trim. Hope I can get the material for all three using three sheet of neoprene. I didn't make a cut-list to see if I will succeed with that plan or not. Wrapped the lizard cord on the bases of the conicals should I ever decide I need to heat them. They are only 25 watts. Not sure how much heating they will be capable of.
Had a few questions for the folks who are using their systems.
How do you keep the thermometers from coming out of the thermowells in the conicals? It might be desirable to make them removable, so I don't want to use anything that I cannot undo later.
How effective is the CIP ball at cleaning the interior of the conical and the coils? Does it clean the lid too? It is my understanding that it is also used to sanitize the conical. What is the procedure? I'm thinking it's probably something like this:
1. Fill bucket with hot water and PBW, connect and recirculate for 5-20 minutes.
2. Drain, dump, and rinse with recirculation for a few minutes with tap water.
3. Fill bucket with StarSan solution, connect and recirculate for 2-3 minutes, drain and drip dry.
How do those times look?
So what have folks been doing? The drying part is supposed to be what matters the most in killing things. However, my experience in homebrewing has been that prolonged soaking is effective without necessarily a drying phase. Trying to dry out a sealed conical seem like it's not going to work since there can be no evaporation.
Seems to me by the way, that sealing the lids of the conicals without using the screws is easier. The one tank I used screws on, the silicone around the screw heads doesn't stay, and I haven't even really started using the tanks yet. Plus seems to offer a better contact area for an o ring or gasket without the screw heads.
Any photos of how folks applied the insulation to be able to read to volume markings?
Last question. Airlocks. I have blow off tubes setup. Attempting to use silicone tubing and share a common bucket of water for an airtrap seems like a recipe for spilling the water. I'm using an old PBW 4# jar for now. Maybe I need something heavier. Where to place it is sort of an issue. What are others doing?
Thanks
TD
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ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
Yes, insulation is next on my list ... From the tests I can see this will be important from a run time perspective ... It's about worse case for me right now, it can keep all three at 68 but runs almost continually ... But it's 80+ in my garage right now. I'll prob add insulation and run the tests again.
I'd be interested to hear answers to your questions from those currently running a system as well.
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I'd be interested to hear answers to your questions from those currently running a system as well.
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As far as cutting the insulation, how are folks doing this? I used a fresh blade on a utility knife and taped a tape measure to the foam using the tape measure as a guide and just cutting the tape as I go. This was fine for the first pieces, but the next few pieces are circular. I certainly do not have a compass that big! I have a silver colored sharpie marker (hope it's still working as it's several years old), some string, and a sharp nail that I was going to fashion a compass out of, but will need a helper to hold the nail or else draw the circle.
Also I notice the lids were not insulated. I would think it might be easy to insulate them at least partially?
Forgot to buy foam pipe insulation tape....
TD
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Also I notice the lids were not insulated. I would think it might be easy to insulate them at least partially?
Forgot to buy foam pipe insulation tape....
TD
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eaglerisingbrew
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Looks amazing. Thanks for the pics and inspiration.
ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
I choose to use stainless electronic solenoid valves vs ball valves due to cost and what I could find that operates at 110v. I think I paid $35 each at the time, which included shipping.
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ejluttmann- what type of glycol set up do you have running there? pics and description would be appreciated. I ran through the history of the thread cant find any posts on the set up.
Also i see your running 4 separate stc1000 any info on how its setup and how they work with the solenoid valves? I have a knock off that i put on my converted fridge fermentation chamber. i like to keep a few different varieties on tap and I want to do something like this to keep a a few conicals in rotation. so i can vary temperature and cold crash times. something i cant do with the fridge.
Also i see your running 4 separate stc1000 any info on how its setup and how they work with the solenoid valves? I have a knock off that i put on my converted fridge fermentation chamber. i like to keep a few different varieties on tap and I want to do something like this to keep a a few conicals in rotation. so i can vary temperature and cold crash times. something i cant do with the fridge.
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