Thanks all for the replies about your choice of heat but rather than a style that you would place into your glycol or water I guess I incorrectly assumed you would use something wrapped around the conical part in some fashion...maybe under some insulation and have the copper coil placed higher on you unit to be more efficient.....any ideas along this line of implementing some heat ....thanks again
DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters
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That's what the heat wrap I spoke of previously is for. Wrap it around the conical and then the insulation around that.
I haven't hooked mine up yet, but it should work fine.
What are you guys using for heat wrap? The sheets of reptile heat like the term wrap or heat tape? I am planning this with a brewhemoth and can't use the sheets....considering heat tape but how do you bypass the built in thermostat?
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My motorized ball valves arrived today. I bought a spare as suggested. What a long time it took, plus the post office nearly screwed it all up (long story).
I am fortunate enough to not require heating. I'm in FL, and only a couple nights per year usually does it drop into below freezing temps during the night for a couple hours. On rare occasions for longer than this. However, my man cave/ brew cave is temp controlled (to a degree) on its own zone in my home AC/Heating setup. That said, the doors are poorly insulated and its tough to keep the temps below 75 in the summer with the AC on. Ambient temp if the zone is disabled in usually in the low 80's in the summer. In the winter and spring it is perfect for ale fermentation however, with an occasional noonish AC usage. I don't imagine I will be wanting or needing heating ability, as most of the year I will be using this for fermenting, conditioning and lagering, well, lager beers.
Going to be ordering the rest of the parts hopefully very soon (est cost approx 2k, not counting what I've already bought, ANY of the PEX tubing, tools, fittings, or crimps, or the stand, being built by a friend at cost)
How many of you have already ordered the custom coils from Stainless Brewing? I am concerned I'm going to royally screw up the specs. Seems there are enough of us we could just tell them "we want the same way as packet for his plastic conical setup".
TD
I am fortunate enough to not require heating. I'm in FL, and only a couple nights per year usually does it drop into below freezing temps during the night for a couple hours. On rare occasions for longer than this. However, my man cave/ brew cave is temp controlled (to a degree) on its own zone in my home AC/Heating setup. That said, the doors are poorly insulated and its tough to keep the temps below 75 in the summer with the AC on. Ambient temp if the zone is disabled in usually in the low 80's in the summer. In the winter and spring it is perfect for ale fermentation however, with an occasional noonish AC usage. I don't imagine I will be wanting or needing heating ability, as most of the year I will be using this for fermenting, conditioning and lagering, well, lager beers.
Going to be ordering the rest of the parts hopefully very soon (est cost approx 2k, not counting what I've already bought, ANY of the PEX tubing, tools, fittings, or crimps, or the stand, being built by a friend at cost)
How many of you have already ordered the custom coils from Stainless Brewing? I am concerned I'm going to royally screw up the specs. Seems there are enough of us we could just tell them "we want the same way as packet for his plastic conical setup".
TD
I bought from Stainless Brewing and the product quality was great. The customer service was spot on as well
Packet - Great Stuff! I'm been following the thread for a while. Was wondering how large of a plastic conical FV do you think this would work for? Obviously, longer SS IC giving more surface area for larger FV, but possibly a larger reservoir, higher BTU A/C unit? Thoughts?
Googled a bit on this.
1 btu is the energy required to raise 1 lb of water 1 degree F. I'm making the assumption that the same holds true for cooling just in the opposite direction.
3 conicals at 15 gallons per conical means 45 gallons
Gallon of beer weighs ~8.3 lbs/gal so we have ~374 lbs of beer which means it would take 374 btus to lower the temp of the beer 1 degree F
The AC I'm using provides 5K Btus/hr
Let's say you wanted to take your brew from 70 degrees to 55 degrees so a delta T of 15
It would take 15 x 374 = 5610 btus to accomplish this so it seems the AC would be up to the task. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case in reality.
This would assume perfect insulation all around. Also, that's the effort to chill it over a pretty large delta. I'd imagine the effort then maintain at that temp would be far less and definitely a function of the quality of insulation all around.
I found a more accurate calc for the effective btu/hr of the chilling system using the flow of the pump and delta T at the cooler
GPM*500*H20 Delta T = BTU/H Note: The 500 constant assumes straight water (no glycol)
Where GPM is gallons per minute flow of the pump
H2O Delta T = (temp of liquid returning to cooler) - (temp of liquid leaving cooler)
I'm about two weeks away from having our system fully built (1/2 barrel HERMS ala electricbrewery.com and 3 15 gal chilled plastic conicals ala Packet). When it's up and running, I'll do some experiments and post back.
1 btu is the energy required to raise 1 lb of water 1 degree F. I'm making the assumption that the same holds true for cooling just in the opposite direction.
3 conicals at 15 gallons per conical means 45 gallons
Gallon of beer weighs ~8.3 lbs/gal so we have ~374 lbs of beer which means it would take 374 btus to lower the temp of the beer 1 degree F
The AC I'm using provides 5K Btus/hr
Let's say you wanted to take your brew from 70 degrees to 55 degrees so a delta T of 15
It would take 15 x 374 = 5610 btus to accomplish this so it seems the AC would be up to the task. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case in reality.
This would assume perfect insulation all around. Also, that's the effort to chill it over a pretty large delta. I'd imagine the effort then maintain at that temp would be far less and definitely a function of the quality of insulation all around.
I found a more accurate calc for the effective btu/hr of the chilling system using the flow of the pump and delta T at the cooler
GPM*500*H20 Delta T = BTU/H Note: The 500 constant assumes straight water (no glycol)
Where GPM is gallons per minute flow of the pump
H2O Delta T = (temp of liquid returning to cooler) - (temp of liquid leaving cooler)
I'm about two weeks away from having our system fully built (1/2 barrel HERMS ala electricbrewery.com and 3 15 gal chilled plastic conicals ala Packet). When it's up and running, I'll do some experiments and post back.
I'm still in limbo on my build. Slowly getting some parts, but the big expenditures are probably on hold til after New Years. The cart is being built supposedly.
Thanks for that BTU analysis. Helps to put things into perspective.
TD
Thanks for that BTU analysis. Helps to put things into perspective.
TD
I saw a video a while ago of someone using a 10k BTU A/C unit and a 50ft coil for a 10BBL fermenter at a craft brewery. If 10k BTU can chill 315 gallons of wort, I'm sure 5k will handle pretty much anything you need at home.
Here's the somewhat confusing description I gave to stainless brewing for my coils:
"Stainless coil should be coiled like an IC. The main difference being the vertical sections should be 18" from the bottom of the coils and instead of the tubes being next to each other, they should be positioned on the opposite side of the coil from each other and should not have a 90 degree bend at the top. The end result should be 2 tubes at the top spaced ~10" apart. Let me know if you don't understand what I'm getting at."
Here's the part I ordered:
11A04X2510CB2 Coiled to customer's request .035 304/304L Coiled Tubing
Size and length: 1/2"0D X 25FT (Normally an additonal $32.50) - $17.50
Diameter of Coil: 10" Additional bends: 2 Bends (90 degree ends) - $12.00
That should get you exactly what I got. The 10" coil just barely fits through the lid. I bought a tube cutter off amazon and shortened the ends of it for my fittings through the lid. Worked great.
Have you bought any of the PEX yet? I have a ton left over you can have for the price of shipping. Let me know if you want it. It's just taking up space in my garage at this point.
Interesting to see if the equation is true wasitim. I have 2 15 gallon conicals and was just wondering if there was an equation to see how many conicals could work with this setup (or how big you could go before the yeast are just too active to be able to keep the temp controlled via ss IC's). I currently just use an insulated box with air conditioner but this seems to provide more temperature control and the ability to ferment at different temps and cold crash one conical while still fermenting the others. Oh how I would love that.
That works too. Glad the photos helped.
packet said:
Have NOT bout the PEX yet, but thanks! I'll take it!
Not yet ready to move forward on any other parts until the cart is done. I have a nice pile of boxes accumulating in the basement already..
Let me about the PEX. No rush of course.
TD
Send me a PM with your address and I'll pack everything up.
Sentpacket said:
So what would it take to set up heat control as well? Would a bcs 462 do it? Or using two 460's? I'm starting my parts list to build this setup with three 30 gallon tanks. My fermentation room will be temp/humidity controlled to about 55-60* year round because it will also double as grain storage and canned food storage room. So heat will be a necessity for me.
Thanks for the awesome build thread and website!
Caleb
Thanks for the awesome build thread and website!
Caleb
You can use either a BCS-460 with an expansion card or a BCS-462.
and that would overcome the limit you were running into?
Yes that would cover you. the 460 only has 6 outputs. You would need 7 to cool and heat 3 fermenters. You can either add an expansion board to the 460 that increases the outputs or just get a 462 that gives you more outputs and increases the temp sensors from 4 that the 460 has to 8. You would only need 4 temp sensors but the 462 would give you the ability to add more sensors to monitor more things or add additional fermenters in the future.
The additional outputs for the BCS (expansion or on a BCS-462) are on/off only and can't be associated with a temp probe. So, there is a bit of programming nonsense you'll have to go through to get heating to work. I posted the details a few pages back on here.
Thanks. I was hoping that had been corrected, or an easier way had been found. That's why i was asking.
What type of heating are ones using? Or could I install a smaller water heater element in each one?
What type of heating are ones using? Or could I install a smaller water heater element in each one?
Heat wrap around the outside of the conical, under the insulation. The other option is an aquarium heater in the glycol, but then you lose the ability to chill one conical while you heat a different conical.
Has anyone had issues with the BCS460 and 8 channel driver board setup?
I've stripped down all of my wiring to troubleshoot and just have the 460 powered and ethernet in plugged in.
I have a single wire coming from output 1 of 460 to input 1 on the 8 channel board.
I have 12V coming to the 8 channel board and the ground of the 8 channel board to the chassis.
I have ball valve one wired into the output 1 of the 8 channel board and to the V- of the power supply.
I plug in one of the ball valves and with no outputs on in the 460, the ball valve activates (opens). That seems odd.
I turn output 1 on manually in the control web page but nothing happens to the ball valve.
Probing across pins 1&2 on the XLR connector, I'm getting 5v. That seems odd.
If I take the wire coming from the 460 output 1 and disconnect it from the 8 channel board, the ball valve activates in the opposite direction (closes).
Unplugging the ball valve connector also closes the valve.
I've stripped down all of my wiring to troubleshoot and just have the 460 powered and ethernet in plugged in.
I have a single wire coming from output 1 of 460 to input 1 on the 8 channel board.
I have 12V coming to the 8 channel board and the ground of the 8 channel board to the chassis.
I have ball valve one wired into the output 1 of the 8 channel board and to the V- of the power supply.
I plug in one of the ball valves and with no outputs on in the 460, the ball valve activates (opens). That seems odd.
I turn output 1 on manually in the control web page but nothing happens to the ball valve.
Probing across pins 1&2 on the XLR connector, I'm getting 5v. That seems odd.
If I take the wire coming from the 460 output 1 and disconnect it from the 8 channel board, the ball valve activates in the opposite direction (closes).
Unplugging the ball valve connector also closes the valve.
When no power is applied to your ball valves, are they open or closed?
Closed. I tried reversing polarity as well and that didn't help this situation.
They're the same one you have, I believe. Operate on AC/DC 9-24V from China.
When I force the output 1 on in the web interface, the output light on the 8 channel board doesn't light up.
BUT, if I wire the ground of the 8 channel board to the V- of the power supply, the little light on the board does light up if I have the input 1 wired to the 460.
I've tried all three ball valves as well.
They're the same one you have, I believe. Operate on AC/DC 9-24V from China.
When I force the output 1 on in the web interface, the output light on the 8 channel board doesn't light up.
BUT, if I wire the ground of the 8 channel board to the V- of the power supply, the little light on the board does light up if I have the input 1 wired to the 460.
I've tried all three ball valves as well.
Getting ready to order the conicals themselves.
How close are the diameters? Do you think I should order all three at once and them individually cut holes for each, or can I get away with ordering one and using it for cutting all three holes?
Reason I ask is it would be easier to only have one conical sent to the welder shop than all three...
TD
How close are the diameters? Do you think I should order all three at once and them individually cut holes for each, or can I get away with ordering one and using it for cutting all three holes?
Reason I ask is it would be easier to only have one conical sent to the welder shop than all three...
TD
Just got off a chat with Jeremiah at OSCS regarding wiring and here's what he suggested.
The driver board ground should be tied to the BCS460 ground which should in turn be wired back to the V- on the power supply. He said otherwise the output from BCS just floats.
With that in place, the ball valve neutral line can just come back to the ground points on the output bus of the driver board.
He suggested the only thing that should go to chassis ground be the ground from the AC coming into the box as tying digital ground to chassis ground can be problematic.
The re-wired grounding got my ball valves up and running.
Might be brewing in a week!!
The driver board ground should be tied to the BCS460 ground which should in turn be wired back to the V- on the power supply. He said otherwise the output from BCS just floats.
With that in place, the ball valve neutral line can just come back to the ground points on the output bus of the driver board.
He suggested the only thing that should go to chassis ground be the ground from the AC coming into the box as tying digital ground to chassis ground can be problematic.
The re-wired grounding got my ball valves up and running.
Might be brewing in a week!!
do you have a build thread wasitim? Id like to see pics of your setup
also, found this site when looking for hydraulic disconnects:
http://www.hoseandfittingsupply.com/product-p/isobset.htm
7.80 per set of 1/2 disconnects. Far cheaper than current ebay pricing. This is where I will be ordering mine from
http://www.hoseandfittingsupply.com/product-p/isobset.htm
7.80 per set of 1/2 disconnects. Far cheaper than current ebay pricing. This is where I will be ordering mine from
Great link!!
I need four sets.....but was hoping to not break the bank......
I think I need 16 sets.... That way I can remove any line in the whole system and it still be pressure tight.
Also, is there a panel mount temp display I can add in so I can see the Ferm temp at a glance w/o logging into the bcs?
Also, is there a panel mount temp display I can add in so I can see the Ferm temp at a glance w/o logging into the bcs?
Slowly starting to bring up the systems on my build. Panel is about 95% there. Have to switch wiring on two of the PIDs and implement the safety interlock.
Got the chiller system mostly done. Waiting on a couple final plumbing pieces arriving today. Hooked up one the glycol lines to just loop back into the cooler return and fired it all up. Water temp started at 58 and was down to 37 in about 40 minutes. Temp has been holding in the cooler for two hours now and hasn't lost a degree, pretty sweet!!
Now to clean out the plastic conicals to try and get rid of the new smell. Got in an Aquatec 550 pump for CIP which seems like it will do the job nicely. Will wall mount that and try it out on the conicals. Then on to cleaning the kettles and passivating and hell, maybe brewing this weekend!!
Got the chiller system mostly done. Waiting on a couple final plumbing pieces arriving today. Hooked up one the glycol lines to just loop back into the cooler return and fired it all up. Water temp started at 58 and was down to 37 in about 40 minutes. Temp has been holding in the cooler for two hours now and hasn't lost a degree, pretty sweet!!
Now to clean out the plastic conicals to try and get rid of the new smell. Got in an Aquatec 550 pump for CIP which seems like it will do the job nicely. Will wall mount that and try it out on the conicals. Then on to cleaning the kettles and passivating and hell, maybe brewing this weekend!!
Are you adding hear as well wasitim?
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