Distilling.. Legal...?

[clearwaterbrewer]

Yes, you have it correct, I would add enough to stop fermentation is all....

additional info - if you had 5.0 gal of 10% mead, that is 20proof, and 1.00 proof gallons (5.0 x .20) If you add 1 gal of 120 proof honey distillate, that is 1.2 proof gallons, for a total of 2.2 proof-gallons, and total volume of around 6.2gal, and 2.2/6.2 = 35.5proof proof, or 17.75%, probably not enough to stop fermentation completely, but now you get the math... 20-25% should stop nearly everything...

*you could add vodka to the honey/must the first time for simplicity, since you are aiming to capture the aromatics that would be lost in boiling or even carried out with CO2 in fermentation...

*watch how much power you put to boiling honey, you don't want to scorch the honey, the pot, or electric elements...

*you can cool to pitching temp in the still, just put a reverse airlock on it... or use a chiller, but make sure it is extra sterile, as there are no hops to help you kill other bugs!

* the first time you may want to do this in a glass lab still like heart-magic.com has... this still is perfectly legal if you use it as intended, for steam extraction of essential oils... what you dabble with after is on you...

 

[flars]

Could not resist a very short story. My mother and her older sister would take care of the last run of the still in early winter when their Dad left the farm to build Pullman cars in Chicago for the Soo Line.

It was not legal.

 

[Shine0n]

I've had distilled mead and it does not carry over like a mead flavor but more so floral note with a slight background of honey. Very tasty I'll say but probably not what you're looking for if chasing meads flavors.
The raspberry melomel that was distilled was a nice drink white at 90p and definitely had more of the mead carryover than the traditional.
Does not taste like a brandy, or schnapps imo, I guess it could be sweeten to taste for a nice round spirit but the cuts may be tricky with honey almost like fruits it's more so in the heads than the hearts and the tails should be avoided at all costs.

Collect is small jars and let breath for 24 hours before trying to blend.

If you try this please post results as I know an orchard guy who distills his leftovers and is legal to do so, sooo!)

 

[parrothead64]

technically not distilling if your making it from extract, but I agree if you’re not selling it, I don’t think the police are coming for you.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

Perfectly legal to age spirits you bought and put in that barrel... although the surface to volume ratio of such a small barrel will allow you to over-age whatever you put in it in a matter of weeks..

fed is very clear on what is distilling and what is not...

https://www.ttb.gov/spirits/home-distilling.shtml

 

[Shine0n]

I have 3-5 gal oak barrels once used from Balcones in Waco Tx.

I just pulled off a 5 gal traditional after 2 months and it's great, a 1 ltr barrel would only be good for 1 week or less tops and it depends on the char level, or toast level.

A new barrel with a new char and not been used for anything before I'd suspect it would over oak very quickly as opposed to a once used whiskey or rum barrel which would be slower reaction and more subtle taste.

Plus 1 litre is a tease if you're hosting but could get you an idea of what to expect from a larger barrel with more time.

5 gal barrel costs me 110$ from my lhbs and with meads I can get multiple uses but each one is extended a couple days to a week or more.

If you can make mead you can tear down a whiskey barrel and make new char.

I personally like the white oak cubes with a med toast over the barrel, it's easier to add oak verses remove.

 

[golfindia]

The oak spirals from ebay or Amazon work great. Jack Daniel's barrel wood chips sold for smokers are another Nice source of wood aging material.

 

[Ryue]

I have 3-5 gal oak barrels once used from Balcones in Waco Tx.

I just pulled off a 5 gal traditional after 2 months and it's great, a 1 ltr barrel would only be good for 1 week or less tops and it depends on the char level, or toast level.

A new barrel with a new char and not been used for anything before I'd suspect it would over oak very quickly as opposed to a once used whiskey or rum barrel which would be slower reaction and more subtle taste.

Plus 1 litre is a tease if you're hosting but could get you an idea of what to expect from a larger barrel with more time.

5 gal barrel costs me 110$ from my lhbs and with meads I can get multiple uses but each one is extended a couple days to a week or more.

If you can make mead you can tear down a whiskey barrel and make new char.

I personally like the white oak cubes with a med toast over the barrel, it's easier to add oak verses remove.

I have a 3L oak barrel from Golden Oak Barrels that I age my mead in. I am getting ready to buy a 20L (5.25 gallons) here pretty quick for like $130. For my recipie, 3 or 4 months imparts a wonderful rich flavor. I highly recomend the brand to anyone who wants one ranging from 1L to 20L.

 

[Shine0n]

Another good option would to buy a half barrel planter, most in my area are whiskey barrels cut in half. Usually around 40-45 bucks.
I'll take the staves apart, cut them on the table saw or band saw into 1"×1"×5" soak them in water for 12 hours.
For a nice med toast I'll put them in the oven wrapped in aluminum foil with holes poke in it for 2 hours at 400°f

400 for 2 hours brings out the vanilla in the wood (American white oak)

I like to start out low on the oak because it's easier to add than to remove, I would go with 2 fingers until you see color changes, give a swirl and taste. If you need longer than do so but if you need to take out you can keep the fingers in a quart of your choice of spirit and save for another day.
I like to soak them in Appleton estates high ester rum for a nice flavor profile.
Some in Honey Bear Bourbon.

 

[wyowolf]

Something I have always wanted to try... someday i will get around to learning about it.

 

[Shine0n]

Start your research now

It takes dedication and devotion but it's definitely worth the investment of time to learn not to get hurt or hurt anyone else.

Homedistiller.org/forums Has by far the best wealth of knowledge of any other site. Anyone who may be interested in home distilling should do alot ALOT ALOT of reading before jumping in heels down.

I've had the pleasure of meeting some fine folks and tasting some of their spirits and will say that if you invest the time/research you can make a quality spirit unmatched by the big commercial boys.

 

[Ryue]

I will definitely do a lot of research prior to actually distilling, I have come accross some good books too that I may buy.

Although I think I had a light bulb moment, but someone witth experience should tell me if I'm wrong.

Instead of having to make and ferment a whole lot of mead to get a high ABV of similar flavor, what of I made a simple, flavorless moonshine wash, distilled to whatever desired abv, then used said distilled alcohol i. Replacement of the water I would normally use in my mead recipie?
For example:
5 gallons moonshine,
12 cups elderberries
30 cinnamon sticks
Etc.
Back sweeten with honey and then age in my oak barrel previously used to age my mead.
Seems like it would turn out? Or am I wrong?

 

[Shine0n]

cinnamon- a little goes a long way in high proof likker.
Maceration of fruits are a very good way to impart flavors in a spirit, removing the fruit is desired before aging in a barrel imo

I'll go through some of what I know later, still at work now but had a few moments.

 

[Ryue]

cinnamon- a little goes a long way in high proof likker.
Maceration of fruits are a very good way to impart flavors in a spirit, removing the fruit is desired before aging in a barrel imo

I'll go through some of what I know later, still at work now but had a few moments.

Thats true about the cinnamon. I put a lot in my mead must, but alcohol definitely absorbs flavors faster than water.
Would you suggest a specific way of making the wash? I haven't done a whole lot of research yet, but I believe its just sugar, right? Would pure raw cane sugar be a good choice?

 

[Shine0n]

"If" I were to do it, I would not do just a sugar wash as it's harsh as hell, if you do decide to us just sugar I would use no more than 1.5 lb per gallon of wash and add 1/2 cup boiled bread yeast to it for nutrients as white table sugar has none and also something to buffer, keep a 5-5.5 ph, "oyster shells" at the beginning of a wash will buffer enough for a 4-5 day ferment.

DO NOT USE TURBO YEAST!!!! lol

If using bread yeast, keep the fermentation above 85°f

 

[Ryue]

Also, is a still with a thumper a better option, or should I just stick with a basic still?

 

[Ryue]

"If" I were to do it, I would not do just a sugar wash as it's harsh as hell, if you do decide to us just sugar I would use no more than 1.5 lb per gallon of wash and add 1/2 cup boiled bread yeast to it for nutrients as white table sugar has none and also something to buffer, keep a 5-5.5 ph, "oyster shells" at the beginning of a wash will buffer enough for a 4-5 day ferment.

DO NOT USE TURBO YEAST!!!! lol

If using bread yeast, keep the fermentation above 85°f

What would be the best option for the wash? I would rather not use honey as it is very expensive (at least, the local honey I get from a farm is)

 

[Shine0n]

Thumper without a doubt!
Only way to run a pot still IMHO

 

[ichbinbier]

Is there such a thing as legal distilling, and if not, why have a distilling page when forum rules say no talk of said activities...?

This forum has members from all over the world including places where it is legal to distill so a thread here is relevant in my opinion.
Remember up until 2013 it was illegal to make you own beer in Mississippi and Alabama but I bet there was forum users from those states here.

And eventually I could see a marijuana thread here as it is legal in a few states now and will be legal in all of Canada this year.

But as stated before if I want to talk about distilling I will go to a distilling forum, if I want to talk about weed I'll go to a weed forum and I come here for the beer talk.

 

[Randar]

I agree Eric. When I first started brewing, a friend asked when were we making whiskey. I told him that the learning curve was too steep on something that would take years to be ready. I brewed twice a month my first year, and it took all of that to learn to make craft quality beer. I would just be sampling my first batch of aged whiskey now.

That's not true at all (except perhaps for the part about learning to make good beer/wash first)... you can make high quality American style whiskeys in as little as 6 months. You have to understand 1) commercial whiskey distilleries produce a CRAP product that needs a lot of aging and charcoal exposure to mellow out... they run hot and fast and pump the product out in volume 2) Relationship between temp cycles and aging, 3) think about surface area/exposure... small barrel whiskeys always taste like crap because the ratio is way off...

and back to #1)

Whisky produced in the U.S. at not exceeding 80% alcohol by volume (160 proof) from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn and stored at not more than 62.5% alcohol by volume (125 proof) in charred new oak containers.

the basic premises of pulling your whiskeys at <160 proof from the still is just nonsense... it adds to the crap starting product and its inclusion in the definition of bourbon is historical garbage. If you make many finer cuts and blend back only what you like, you will end up with a far superior starting product that will require less aging to mellow. Take a look at a typical pot run as illustrated below. How do you separate the hearts from the heads and tails? How do you separate the different components of the heads and tails into determining what is and isn't desirable? It's not truly possible, is it? They're all smeared together. The more coarse and lower purity your cuts are, the more "smearing" that is occurring outside of your control.

Now in a more controlled run in a high reflux still, you will have much more obvious delineations between the different components. And through trial and error you can determine what is and isn't suitable for your needs.

For aging, char some staves all the way around and age in stainless. Allow some air exchange periodically or via some small hole/breathing valve thingy of your choice.

There are quite a few here (including a couple mods) who can vouch for my... ahem... "knowledge" on this...

This is more labor intensive, but at small scale, what else is it but a labor of love?

 

[Randar]

Also, is a still with a thumper a better option, or should I just stick with a basic still?

Start reading and figure out what your goals and range of products you might like to try. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. Stills for brandy, gin, vodka, whiskey, etc all have unique requirements and the still designs can be tweaked as such.

https://aussiedistiller.com.au/books/The compleat distiller.pdf

And if you can pick up a copy of this book, it will be a nice complement to the pdf book linked above.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0968629210/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Ryue]

Well I was thinking along the lines of the most flavorless process I can find as I want to use it as a base to add berries and spices to after.. So that would technically be vodka, if I'm not mistaken? May have read an inaccurate artical though..

 

[Shine0n]

I can taste the difference between vodka and a neutral spirit.

A pot still will get you brandies, rums and whiskeys, a reflux colum will get you neutrals and vodkas.

There are different fermenting techniques for each of the spirits too.

The guide for cuts shown a few posts ago is for a potstill and for a neutral or vodka you would keep only hearts from a few runs and redistill them and only keep the most clean part of the run.

 

[Randar]

Well I was thinking along the lines of the most flavorless process I can find as I want to use it as a base to add berries and spices to after.. So that would technically be vodka, if I'm not mistaken? May have read an inaccurate artical though..

Then you want a high reflux still... Do some reading and let me know if you have questions. A basic pot still in any typical configuration is not going to be suitable for that.

 

[Shine0n]

Yes, you would want a reflux colum not a pot still.
If you decide to build, there are many links in Homedistiller.org, many folks to help you along the way as long as you do your part
"research"
If you decide to buy, the shop or or company where you buy have to by law upon request turn over your personal information to the TTB.
I for one wouldn't want then lookin through my garage for untaxed likker.

I would build! Hit up the lcoal scrap yard and look for a 15.5 gal keg, some 2" or 3" copper and build a simple reflux colum. ferrules can be bought from amazon, copper or ss.
The other materials needed can be bought from your local plumbing supply co.

A simple boka will get you a pure vodka or neutral, you just need to have a good mash or wash and some knowledge of what and how.

 

[CanadianJesus]

I'm glad that distillation talk is allowed here now. I started making mead a little over 2 years ago, but have gotten into home distillation in recent months. It's actually not a very big 'crime' here in Canada. From my research, nobody has ever been charged and convicted for home distillation of liquor here in Canada.

I have a question though. Can I post in the wine forum and ask questions about my 'wine' that I intend to distil, or would I have to leave out the part of what I intend to do with the wine (mash). I'm working on a recipe for Concord grape Grappa right now, but I have a question about yeast activity. I think I'll post in the wine forum but leave out the fact that I'm going to distil it just for the sake of site integrity.

 

[Shine0n]

I'm sure as long as you're not making and selling likker to the public you'll be fine.
I'm my location, it's the same although they did bust a fella selling to the authorities a couple years ago but he had a 300 gallon still with a bunch of mash and bottled likker ready to go. Dumb ass!!!

What kind of yeast did you use? All things fruit I use d47 as it imparts a nice fruity flavor to the must.

Good thing about distilling is that unless you have an element in the still you don't have to clear and even better if you run a thumper in which you could put the must in the boiler and muck in the thumper! win win imo.
AND,,, dont add sulfides/sulfite to anything you want to distill, it will carry over from what I've read. I don't make alot of fruit wines just meads with fruits (alot)

 

[CanadianJesus]

I'm using Lalvin EC-1118 in a Welch's Grappa. Simple cheap recipe. I'm still new at this and I'm trying to not do really expensive mashes until I get a better hang of running my still (it's just a small 1 gallon capacity all copper pot still). And no, I do not and have no intention of selling it. Sharing with friends, yes, but I have nothing to worry about. I have little to no interaction with police or anything of that sort.

It's just that I pitched the yeast 3 days ago and I still have no airlock activity. I checked the gravity after 24 hours and it rose by 3 points probably due to the fact that I crushed a bunch of table grapes and added the juice to the mash and suspended the crushed grapes in a tied up piece of cheesecloth. Two nights ago I decided to re hydrate 2 more packs of the same yeast, one of them was a second pack I bought from my LHBS at the same time that has an expiry date of 2019, and an old pack I had laying around that expires next month.

I added 3tsp of DAP and 1tsp of White Labs nutrient. OG is 1.090 and rose 3 points to 1.093 after the first 24 hours. I'm going to take a reading tonight to see if anything's happening. I'm just hoping the shop didn't sell me dead yeast. I noticed that he didn't have it refrigerated. The pack I had laying around was actually one I forgot about and wasn't refrigerated either because I was going to use it for a project I had in mind a few years back that I forgot about.

But on the other hand, I recently made two 1 gallon batches of mead out of a single pack of liquid WYeast 1388 that was left un refrigerated for over a year. That yeast took off like a rocket, and from my understanding refrigerating liquid yeast is far more important than it is with dry yeast...

I made my first mead with EC 1118 and it was fermenting within a day. I'm just wondering if this is normal or not for grape wine with this yeast.

 

[Randar]

Ugni Blanc (aka trebbiano or St Émilion) and Colombard varietals make a really nice Brandy or cognac. Bonus points for also being the key fortifier for legit port. You may be able to find grape must or wine kits focused on this grape varietal as well. As noted, keep additions to a minimum. You don't particularly care about clarity and fining as you do in a typical wine, so you can skip a few of the usual steps.

 

[Shine0n]

Also, collect in very small jars (baby food jars)
Cuts will be very hard on a pot still that small but can be done if the fractions are well separated.
May I suggest to do stripping runs to collect low wines, get enough of it for a full charge spirit run and you'll get back 50-65% pure hearts.
If you dont know, a strip run is where you run hard and fast only discarding the fore shots and keeping the rest. stripping to around 10-15% should get you a total volume under 40%
A spirit run is when you have enough of the low wines to fill the boiler and thumper, the key is to keep the low wines under 40% and 30% is better yet!

Keep the stillage left in the boiler as it will add to the flavors in the spirit run. If needed, dilute the low wines with it and not water.

Run the spirit run at a medium pace, a pencil lead sized stream is good and as I've mentioned... collect in very small jars.

Let them air out over night with a coffee filter only to cover the tops, this will let the higher alcohols evaporate and you'll be surprised in how much different the smell are from fresh to 24 hours.

Blending is another beast all together but ec1118 makes it easier than other yeasts from my experience.
Good luck,
Shine0n