Distilling infected beer

[RevA]

Hi,

Does anyone know whether there is a chance any of the infection carries over if one distills an infected batch of beer? or should it rather be tossed?

 

[jimmayhugh]

Hi,

Does anyone know whether there is a chance any of the infection carries over if one distills an infected batch of beer? or should it rather be tossed?

Between the boiling and the higher ABV product produced, I doubt that any biologic entities would survive. If it's a highly-hopped beer, the hop oils may carry over and affect the taste, but not the antibiotic efficiency.

 

[mashpaddled]

The microorganisms won't carry over but some of the flavors may, especially in a pot still.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The microorganisms won't carry over but some of the flavors may, especially in a pot still.

Aren't many distilled spirits intentionally contaminated like rum and/or whiskey?

 

[Yooper]

One of the things I learned was when I had an infected pale ale, my friend who had the still declined to run it because of the hops oils that would build up and be an issue with the still. If you want to recover the alcohol in a non-hoppy beer, it should be fine.

 

[TallDan]

One of my homebrew clubs got a whiskey barrel and a bunch of us brewed a stout to age in the barrel. When it was time to taste it, it was obvious that it had become infected and did not taste good at all. One of the club members took some and ran it through his air still. It came out tasting pretty good. No off flavors from the infection, and for something that wasn't intended for distilling, it tasted quite good!

 

[doug293cz]

"Someone I know" has reclaimed alcohol from the leftovers and dump buckets from beer competitions. "Wash" includes lots of hop compounds since IPA's are one of the most popular categories at competitions. Some infected bottles were also included (couple of bottles even had what looked like scobies, and they were not kombuchas.) There is some residual taste from the hops, but haven't noticed any from infections.

Aging on oak chips gives good results. I overheard a comment from a bourbon aficionado about one of the batches being "better than a lot of commercial bourbons."

Brew on

 

[jimmayhugh]

Aren't many distilled spirits intentionally contaminated like rum and/or whiskey?

The correct word is "aged" which is something they do on purpose.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I mean the "wash" is contaminated.

 

[jimmayhugh]

I mean the "wash" is contaminated.

Called a "Sour Mash" with Bourbon, and "Dunder" with Rum. Still done on purpose, so technically not contaminated, which is "having been made impure by exposure to or addition of a poisonous or polluting substance."

 

[RPh_Guy]

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Jayjay1976]

A rum wash should not be infected. When it is time to distill, it is common practice to add in some backset, or leftover stillage from a previous batch, which has been allowed to become infected with wild bacteria which will produce desirable esters. Mold is NOT desirable and is reason to discard a batch of dunder.

This really has zero in common with a sour mash whiskey.

 

[RPh_Guy]

A rum wash should not be infected. When it is time to distill, it is common practice to add in some backset, or leftover stillage from a previous batch, which has been allowed to become infected with wild bacteria which will produce desirable esters.

Regardless of exactly when it becomes contaminated, a sour mash and a rum wash mixed with "infected" dunder both contain wild microbes and their fermentation byproducts before distillation, same as the beer in question.

 

[Loud Brewing]

One of the things I learned was when I had an infected pale ale, my friend who had the still declined to run it because of the hops oils that would build up and be an issue with the still. If you want to recover the alcohol in a non-hoppy beer, it should be fine.

A good cleaning and the still will be fine.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Regardless of exactly when it becomes contaminated, a sour mash and a rum wash mixed with "infected" dunder both contain wild microbes and their fermentation byproducts before distillation, same as the beer in question.

Yeah, but they aren't the same thing.
I can sense that it pains you to be contradicted, but you're wrong in saying that there is no difference.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, but they aren't the same thing.
I can sense that it pains you to be contradicted, but you're wrong in saying that there is no difference.

I'm not saying they're the same thing, just that they both contain wild microbes.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'm not saying they're the same thing, just that they both contain wild microbes.

A distinction without a difference.

Distilling an infected beer is somewhat similar to making a sour mash whiskey but neither of them have anything in common with the use of dunder in producing rum. Similar in the use of wild microbes perhaps, but different in what the microbes consume and produce.

 

[RPh_Guy]

My "distinction without a difference" comment was in response to @jimmayhugh saying that whiskey and rum washes are not "contaminated" because wild microbes are added on purpose.
It wasn't about the difference between rum and whiskey.

I was only pointing out whiskey/rum have wild microbes as potential evidence that it's fine to distill "contaminated" beer.

Sorry for any confusion.

Similar in the use of wild microbes perhaps, but different in what the microbes consume and produce.

I'm curious as to what the differences are if you wouldn't mind elaborating.

 

[Jayjay1976]

My "distinction without a difference" comment was in response to @jimmayhugh saying that whiskey and rum washes are not "contaminated" because wild microbes are added on purpose.
It wasn't about the difference between rum and whiskey.

I was only pointing out whiskey/rum have wild microbes as potential evidence that it's fine to distill "contaminated" beer.

Sorry for any confusion.


I'm curious as to what the differences are if you wouldn't mind elaborating.

Here you go.

https://www.alcademics.com/2019/01/...sour-mash-whiskey-and-jamaican-muck-pits.html

Sour Mash
...."some of the stillage (the leftover liquid in the still after distillation) is added to the next fermentation batch. Because the stillage has just been in a still that is literally boiling hot, there is no live yeast to transfer from one batch to the next. The sour mash is just acidifying the fermentation vessel to adjust the pH for a better fermentation and to prevent bacterial infection. The quantity of stillage used could be considered part of a distillery's recipe."


Muck Pits

"In some Jamaican rums, the stillage (leftovers after distillation) is called dunder, and it is mixed up with other leftovers of the rum production process into something called muck.

From an excellent post on CocktailWonk.com called, "Days of Dunder: Setting the Record Straight on Jamaican Rum’s Mystery Ingredient"

[Muck is] a giant bolus of bacteria that creates a soup of carboxylic acids... muck is essentially a biological reactor for generating acids that eventually turn into yummy esters. It’s fed refuse from various parts of the rum production process, and its pH level is carefully nurtured via the addition of marl to keep it in humming along or dormant, as necessary.

At the end of fermentation, a portion of muck is tossed in with the fermented molasses and it's distilled together to produce hugely-flavorful rum. Note that unlike in sour mashing, they want to promote bacteria- at least the right bacteria."

 

[jimmayhugh]

A distinction without a difference.

This goes down the same path where bullet is the same as round, clip is the same as magazine, etc. Words have meaning, and the proper use of a word makes the idea you're trying to convey more precise. Beer's wort is whiskey's wash, and knowledgeable people use them appropriately.

Rather than going farther down this road, I'll direct your attention to the Milk The Funk wiki. There they call it "Mixed Fermentation" or "Spontaneous Fermentation" rather than "contamination".

 

[Jayjay1976]

Bingo. One man's infection is another man's mixed fermentation. Adding dunder to a sour mash would likely ruin it. At any rate, it wouldn't produce a bourbon whisky. Maybe it would be a rumsky? Might be worth exploring

 

[RPh_Guy]

This goes down the same path where bullet is the same as round, clip is the same as magazine, etc. Words have meaning, and the proper use of a word makes the idea you're trying to convey more precise. Beer's wort is whiskey's wash, and knowledgeable people use them appropriately.

Rather than going farther down this road, I'll direct your attention to the Milk The Funk wiki. There they call it "Mixed Fermentation" or "Spontaneous Fermentation" rather than "contamination".

Lol, I specialize in mixed fermentation sour beer/etc and I know which words are most technically correct.

I used the word "contamination" to describe the presence of wild microbes in rum only because I was emphasizing that similarity to the contaminated beer in the OP.

Now everyone here knows "contaminations" are only unintended, thanks to you.

The sour mash is just acidifying the fermentation vessel to adjust the pH for a better fermentation and to prevent bacterial infection.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was under the impression the phrase "sour mash" was the same or similar thing as in brewing which apparently it is not at all.

 

[RevA]

Lol, I specialize in mixed fermentation sour beer/etc and I know which words are most technically correct.

I used the word "contamination" to describe the presence of wild microbes in rum only because I was emphasizing that similarity to the contaminated beer in the OP.

Now everyone here knows "contaminations" are only unintended, thanks to you.



Thanks for pointing that out. I was under the impression the phrase "sour mash" was the same or similar thing as in brewing which apparently it is not at all.

Thanks! It helps to understand the terms.

 

[beaksnbeer]

Run it through the still IF there are an off flavors run a second time

 

[Hammy71]

A good cleaning and the still will be fine.

This, never had an issue....I mean someone I know has never had an issue. I mean I heard that.

 

[mashpaddled]

Aren't many distilled spirits intentionally contaminated like rum and/or whiskey?

Right because they intend to have some of the compounds created by the microorganisms carry over. Depending upon the compounds in the beer, the still and distilling techniques you will take or leave various compounds.

 

[Dtsyukfan]

Hey all. I didn't intend to resurrect an old thread for my first post, but this one caught my eye. From what I've read, if my first forays into wine and beer don't work out the way they ought to, I could, theoretically, run them through a still (if I had one) and all wouldn't be lost. It would make quite an interesting result, with strawberry, watermelon, and dandelion wines, plus a rhubarb mead, and what I fear is a failed bourbon vanilla porter. Mutt moonshine. Sorta like stackable pringles, only with bad ferments.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Hey all. I didn't intend to resurrect an old thread for my first post, but this one caught my eye. From what I've read, if my first forays into wine and beer don't work out the way they ought to, I could, theoretically, run them through a still (if I had one) and all wouldn't be lost. It would make quite an interesting result, with strawberry, watermelon, and dandelion wines, plus a rhubarb mead, and what I fear is a failed bourbon vanilla porter. Mutt moonshine. Sorta like stackable pringles, only with bad ferments.

Whatever the outcome, if you enjoy it then it was a success. Make what you like, like what you make. That's the best part about this thing of ours.

 

[Coriba]

I fermented a bunch of plums. OG only about 1.010. Fermented down to 1.010 and stuck. It’s highly acidic, which may be why the toast died, TA ~12%. What would happen if I distilled this in a pot still? I have fifty litres.

 

[Coriba]

... yeast died ...

 

[doug293cz]

I fermented a bunch of plums. OG only about 1.010. Fermented down to 1.010 and stuck. It’s highly acidic, which may be why the toast died, TA ~12%. What would happen if I distilled this in a pot still? I have fifty litres.

You'd get a plum brandy.

Brew on

 

[Coriba]

It would undoubtedly be better than it is right now. I do remember plum brandy being a headache in a bottle. Worth a try.

 

[doug293cz]

It would undoubtedly be better than it is right now. I do remember plum brandy being a headache in a bottle. Worth a try.

If you do a stripping run and then a spirit run - taking care to keep only the hearts - shouldn't be as bad. Heads and tails contain the higher alcohols and other components that give the worst headaches.

Brew on

 

[Coriba]

Looks like some research is required. Thanks.

 

[bracconiere]

the hop flavor will carry over....but adding it back to a beer actually makes a great fortified beer......gives it an interesting hoppiness, very pronounced....

 

[thefigure5]

Looks like some research is required. Thanks.

There's a wiki for that, no pun intended.
http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

 

[Desvio]

the hop flavor will carry over....but adding it back to a beer actually makes a great fortified beer......gives it an interesting hoppiness, very pronounced....

I have often thought of doing this, and the one infected batch of beer I had had a unique flavor. It got bottled and pasteurized, it was amazing, but I still keep wondering about that lost opportunity at a fortified beer.