Discuss: Pump Priming

[Evan!]

Well, I'm glad this thread has spawned some good ideas. Personally, I think I've been able to get my process to where it doesn't need an air release valve. Just open the kettle valve, wait a few seconds, then turn on the pump.

 

[Bobby_M]

The issue that the release valve is meant to fix is that even after you let the liquid settle into pump head, there's some air in the input line between the pump and "from" vessel. The pump will start but then get airlocked. To Nathan's point, there are tricks to get rid of most of the air. One trick I use is to open the "from" vessel's valve with nothing attached and catch the dribble in a cup. This at least fills the siphon tube and ball valve with liquid.

 

[Evan!]

The issue that the release valve is meant to fix is that even after you let the liquid settle into pump head, there's some air in the input line between the pump and "from" vessel. The pump will start but then get airlocked. To Nathan's point, there are tricks to get rid of most of the air. One trick I use is to open the "from" vessel's valve with nothing attached and catch the dribble in a cup. This at least fills the siphon tube and ball valve with liquid.

Oh, I know, I realize that---what I'm saying is that, with my setup, as long as I open the valve first and let the head fill with water, I don't get "airlocked". Everything works fine.

 

[conpewter]

The airlock in the siphon tube is why I ended up switching to a bottom drain tube on the boil kettle. The HLT still has a siphon tube so I let it dribble a little if I don't remember to fill through the tube.

 

[nathan]

I ran my wort from the mash tun to the kettle ball-valve to ball-valve with the pump this time, and my first run out of the kettle had no air stuck in it (I pinched off the tubing and switched it on the pump to pump out from kettle).

Anyway, I did two batches in a row, had no issues beyond a few seconds of cavitation, so I think you just get so used to how to do it you can do it without even realizing it. It wasn't until I saw this thread again that I remembered.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I have a T on the outlet with two ball valves and 2 QD's. I vent with whichever isn't hooked up to the hose and it also lets me take samples during the transfer to the BK etc.

With a ball valve I don't burn my fingers.

 

[fifelee]

I tested mine last weekend. Worked like a charm. No more priming problems for me. Yippy.

 

[doggage]

Looks like a schrader valve, so the cap is there just to provide some protection. It works like this:

I may not know the solution to the priming problem after having read this post, but I certainly do know the internal workings of the Schrader valve. And for that, slimer, I am forever indebted to you. The things one just takes for granted...

 

[lehr]

Mine.

 

[beerthirty]

Never saw this thread before lehr brought it to the top. Here is how I handle it.

these are vacuum breakers, mounted on each side of the pump. They contain floats that rise when liquid enters and seals the valve. With air present they fall and allow liquid head pressure to purge the air and then reseal. The NPT port has a bubble breaker to prevent surface tension of the liquid from blocking the port. I have one on the inlet of each pump to allow priming when the pump cavity is full but the line is empty, and one on the outlet of each pump so when the pump is turned off air that is trapped in the outlet lines or valves cant flow back to the pump and vapor lock the pump. I have yet to brew with it but have done 3 brew temp wet runs with 100% success. The red button is for the automatic purging and the black button allows you to manually purge.
link to the duovent. Auto Dual Air Vent,Hot And Cold,1/4 In - Vent Valves - Valves - Plumbing : Grainger Industrial Supply

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

That looks sweet beerthirty. Looks like a big-block.

Those aren't technically vacuum breakers. I mentioned these degassing valves in post 22 of this thread. A vacuum breaker works such that if you put one on the suction side of the pump it would open and your pump would just keep pulling air through the vacuum breaker. A vacuum breaker prevents you from pulling vacuum...but seals with positive pressure.

EDIT: Vacuum breakers prevent stuff like this from happening:

 

[slimer]

That looks sweet beerthirty. Looks like a big-block.

Those aren't technically vacuum breakers. I mentioned these degassing valves in post 22 of this thread. A vacuum breaker works such that if you put one on the suction side of the pump it would open and your pump would just keep pulling air through the vacuum breaker. A vacuum breaker prevents you from pulling vacuum...but seals with positive pressure.

EDIT: Vacuum breakers prevent stuff like this from happening:YouTube - Tank car implosion d'un wagon citerne

I work in the rail industry and have seen that video so many times! It never loses it's gusto.

 

[beerthirty]

I had always called them automatic air vents but others had called them vacuum breakers. I wasn't aware of the difference. Thanks

 

[FailureDrill]

Based on this thread, this is what I came up with. Worked awesome, thanks for the help.

 

[Grimtas]

Out of curosity why is everyone still using the left/right in/out puts when March makes a center inlet side outlet? I still need to buy the pumps for my rig and was planning on the center inlet route mounting the pumps verticle for easier plumbing. Thoughts...

 

[IrregularPulse]

A lot of people I imagine (myself included) just see so many people on here using this pump in this configuration and when they think Brew pump that's what they think and order. I got a great deal on my pump from another member on here however switching to the center input one.

 

[rcrabb22]

Out of curosity why is everyone still using the left/right in/out puts when March makes a center inlet side outlet? I still need to buy the pumps for my rig and was planning on the center inlet route mounting the pumps verticle for easier plumbing. Thoughts...

One reason might be the different inlet size from the opposed inlet model. The 809 PL-HS-C model I have seen available has an inlet combination of 3/8" FPT and 3/4" MPT with a 1/2" MPT outlet. The opposed model used 1/2" MPT for both inlet and outlet.

 

[Grimtas]

One reason might be the different inlet size from the opposed inlet model. The 809 PL-HS-C model I have seen available has an inlet combination of 3/8" FPT and 3/4" MPT with a 1/2" MPT outlet. The opposed model used 1/2" MPT for both inlet and outlet.

Ahh I missed the 3/8 3/4 Inlet on the C. But now that derives another question wouldn't a 3/4" inlet be easier to prime. I know the rig would require different plumbing on the outputs from the kettles but with a gravity feed on 3/4... bah nvm my outputs from the kettles are only 1/2" so that won't work. Back to my coffee.

Thanks for the inputs.

 

[hedonist91]

Mine.

Hey I am doing research on my pump setup, because I ruined a brewday with a march 809. So, I don't have a bleeder valve. I know now that it would be beneficial.
In your set up here, wouldn't you want the input to be facing up, allowing gravity to push into the pump too? I was under the impression, too, that you'd want to prime by turning the pump off and allowing gravity to run liquid through it first, then fiddle with turning it on and off and using the bleeder valve.
The orientation of the head on my pump is the input is straigt into the pump the long way, and then the output is out the side.
Sorry, no pics-I sent my pump with one of my friends to some mechanical genius guy who's going to look at it. Just trying to figure out how I should mount the pump when/if I get it back (maybe I ruined it?)
Thanks guys,.

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

I would love to hear what Bobby finally settled on and how it is working. I blew up a brew day yesterday pretty bad and the March Pump was definitely one of the many killers I encountered.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Never saw this thread before lehr brought it to the top. Here is how I handle it.

these are vacuum breakers, mounted on each side of the pump. They contain floats that rise when liquid enters and seals the valve. With air present they fall and allow liquid head pressure to purge the air and then reseal. The NPT port has a bubble breaker to prevent surface tension of the liquid from blocking the port. I have one on the inlet of each pump to allow priming when the pump cavity is full but the line is empty, and one on the outlet of each pump so when the pump is turned off air that is trapped in the outlet lines or valves cant flow back to the pump and vapor lock the pump. I have yet to brew with it but have done 3 brew temp wet runs with 100% success. The red button is for the automatic purging and the black button allows you to manually purge.
link to the duovent. Auto Dual Air Vent,Hot And Cold,1/4 In - Vent Valves - Valves - Plumbing : Grainger Industrial Supply

Damn, it's my own fault. I wish I would have seen this post a week ago. I finished the plumbing on my brewery last week.

 

[DeafSmith]

The issue that the release valve is meant to fix is that even after you let the liquid settle into pump head, there's some air in the input line between the pump and "from" vessel. The pump will start but then get airlocked. To Nathan's point, there are tricks to get rid of most of the air. One trick I use is to open the "from" vessel's valve with nothing attached and catch the dribble in a cup. This at least fills the siphon tube and ball valve with liquid.

I'm designing my system now - it'll be a 3-tier, but I have one March pump that I'll use to pump sparge water up to my cooer HLT and strike and mash-out water into my MLT. I'll have a Tee and valves to switch the pump output between either the HLT or MLT, and I wondered if it is possible to backflush the pump and input line to get rid of the air bubble in the inlet. I could add a ball valve on the output side with input from a small plastic bucket of water. The procedure would be to connect the pump input to the kettle, open the kettle valve and the output valve to HLT or MLT and allow the pump housing to fill, then open the valve to the backflush bucket (mounted higher than the kettle) to flush air from the input line (it would go back into the kettle), then close the backflush valve and start the pump. I've never used one of these pumps before, so I don't know whether this is even possible and wanted to get some input. Thanks.

 

[drkwoods]

My set up with the cable pull stop cocks mounted in ported ball valves.

 

[gungadin]

Those valves look awesome if they work as described, but from the grainger details on those float valves "Not for use in potable or open-loop systems"... doesn't exactly make me want to put it in contact with my beer.

 

[drkwoods]

they are from McMCarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/410/=a9by39 and
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stop-cocks/=a9c2ix
brass and I see no problem with them as they are the only brass parts in my entire stainless steel system other than the Marchpump housing. If this still is a problem someone chime in and I swap it out to a SS Tee and bushing instead
scroll down and youll see the "Brass Ball Valves with Gauge Port"
and (Better link) www.mcmaster.com/#drain-handle-stop-cocks/=a9c5h5

 

[AlchemyBrewing]

I think gungadin was referring to beerthirty not your valves. I think the only thing that would worry me about your valve system is that they could get sticky and not seat back properly. Have you ever had any problems with this set up?

 

[drkwoods]

your Right Alch! my bad... Yea they work perfect just a little tug on the cable and it burps into a drip pan below..regaining prime is easy... then I flush the whole thing out with hot water and some mild Star-san at the end of brew day , to avoid an sticky probs

 

[RobbyBeers]

Looks like a great setup, but it seems that the Grainger item is discontinued. Anyone have an alternative?

 

[samc]

Looks like a great setup, but it seems that the Grainger item is discontinued. Anyone have an alternative?

do this search on Amazon "WATTS duo vent", several sources, including the new model which does not have the same 2 vents on top.

 

[RobbyBeers]

Lovely, thanks.

I went with the new model, and I'm going to try it just on the outlet end.