Discuss: Pump Priming

[Evan!]

So I'm pretty much where I want to be with my recirculating IC whirlpool chiller setup, and love it to death so far, but the one area where I feel like I could use some improvement is priming the pump. Several times, I've been able to prime it by simply closing the valve at the kettle, turning the pump on the try to start a vacuum, then opening the valve and letting it pull. That works probably 70% of the time. The rest of the time, I have to suck on the output end really quickly, which isn't a big deal because the near-boiling wort will quickly sanitize it again, but I'd rather not have to bother with this crap. I've seen talk of bleeder valves and stuff, and something about a wort wizard, but I'd like to figure out what the best way to upgrade here, before I make the move. So...whatcha got for me?

 

[conpewter]

I brew in the basement now so what I've started to do is to use the vinyl tube from the faucet (used to clean/fill HLT) and push water through the pump into the HLT, turn off the pump once water is flowing. Then I try to never loose prime... cause then I end up squeezing the hose a whole lot to get it started again. This is with a modified taco-bronze circulation pump.

 

[Bobby_M]

I built a fitting that converts my garden hose QD style to my brewrig QD style so that I can quickly push tap water through my pump lines/housing. Water under that kind of pressure just blasts the air out of the pump housing.

I know others have mounted the pump vertically with the motor up, pump head down. I can see how this would help, but it requires you to disconnect when you want to oil the bearings.

Finally, putting a TEE on the output of the pump prior to your ball valve and installing a pull-vent valve might help and it's something I've been thinking about trying. I was also thinking this would be helpful on the pump input side, but at the QD where I attach to the "from vessel". The reason is, even when the pump is primed already and you just connected to a new vessel, you'll get a pocket of air in the line when you first open the valve. I'd like to be able to vent it so that the pump doesn't lose prime.

 

[Evan!]

I don't use mine for transferring water from the HLT, I just use it to recirc the wort after the boil, and then to transfer that wort to the fermenters once it's chilled. So I don't think pumping tap water through it would be the best idea. I recirc some star san through before brew day, then recirc'ing the near-boiling wort does the rest.

 

[The Pol]

I just place the end of the OUT hose lower than my fluid level, filling the pump and hose, turn off the valve at the pump (to lock in the liquid) then connect the QD... tada, instant prime. Prime once like that and I am good to go.

Since I use the same hoses for input and output through the entire brew, once I have a prime, I never lose it. Simply using gravity seems to work for me.

 

[lustreking]

How do you have your pump head oriented?

For easiest priming, the input should be down, and the output should be up.

The next best thing is to have the input on the left, and the output on the right. I use this orientation, because I can't physically mount mine using the "proper" orientation.

I use a bleeder valve:

The bleeder valve is the needle valve hanging off to the right.

 

[JVD_X]

Well you could put a Safety Siphon on the wort in side or have it pull from the ice water to get that pump primed.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I just place the end of the OUT hose lower than my fluid level, filling the pump and hose, turn off the valve at the pump (to lock in the liquid) then connect the QD... tada, instant prime. Prime once like that and I am good to go.

This is what I do currently as well, but I feel as though there is a better way... I want to try the vent valve idea.

 

[flyangler18]

Steve,

What are the part #s for the bleeder valves that you're using? I have my pump mounted input on left, output on right so your system closely mirrors mine.

 

[dstar26t]

Evan!,

This is my set-up

I have no problems with priming. The HLT is on the right and the boil kettle on the left. Each vessel has a dip tube inside that goes almost to the bottom. For easy priming, the water/wort level in each vessel must be above that vessel's valve. I open the valve on the pump (with the pump off) and then open the valve on the vessel. Water/wort travels down to the pump by gravity, into it and then up the outlet. Then the pump gets turned on and if the flow isn't strong enough due to air pockets, I turn the pump off, let the air rise out of the head for a couple seconds and turn it back on. It's usually good to go but sometimes I have to turn it on and off 2 or 3 times. I use it to pump HLT water to the cooler MLT and to pump through a cfc.

That was the last time that traceable is getting used if you can see it there on the right of the cooler

 

[Bobby_M]

I wish I could find it on Mcmaster's site again but I found a simple and cheap brass manual vent valve with 1/2" NPT that even had a length of cable on it for momentarily actuating it. Either they don't stock it anymore or I'm not using the right keywords.

 

[Bobby_M]

Evan!,

This is my set-up

I have no problems with priming. ....................It's usually good to go but sometimes I have to turn it on and off 2 or 3 times. I use it to pump HLT water to the cooler MLT and to pump through a cfc.

I'd argue that even going through that process is "a problem" and I'm tired of having to do it. There's got to be a better, more repeatable way because there are times when I lose prime from sucking air or whatever and need to quickly reprime.

 

[The Pol]

Having your pump on a switch rather than unplugging it every time you want to stop it, is a luxury too... and in some cases helps with obtaining a prime if you are trying to get the last couple bubbles out.

Overall, the pump is pretty easy to prime IMHO.

 

[flyangler18]

I'd argue that even going through that process is "a problem" and I'm tired of having to do it.

I agree with that statement completely. If the aim of having a pump is ease of use and convenience, then there has to be an easier way. I'm leaning toward using a bleeder valve myself.

 

[The Pol]

Are you guys losing prime after the pump has been primed?

 

[conpewter]

I loose prime sometimes when pumping from the MLT to the boil kettle if i don't carefully watch it (I bet I'd have a really hard time with a cream ale cause it is hard for me to see the liquid level in my silicone tubing with a pale ale)

Oh and my dip tubes often seem to have air in them (locked in from when it was empty and I filled from the top) so I'm planning on doing a cheap bottom mount drain, look for a how-to thread soon... if it works.

 

[olllllo]

I use a tee on the output side with a ball valve to vent out any air. No problems.

 

[Bobby_M]

^me too. It's always when draining from the MLT or getting the last bit out of the HLT. I usually catch it, but I'm a scatterbrain.

 

[Evan!]

I wish I could find it on Mcmaster's site again but I found a simple and cheap brass manual vent valve with 1/2" NPT that even had a length of cable on it for momentarily actuating it. Either they don't stock it anymore or I'm not using the right keywords.

that would be badass...let me know if you find it.

 

[Bobby_M]

I even had a picture of it in my gallery... grrrr..

 

[lustreking]

I even had a picture of it in my gallery... grrrr..

This looks about right:
McMaster-Carr

The cable pull one apparently can't be disassembled for cleaning, while another one on that page can be. I don't know how important that is to you.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I don't have any pumps in my 'so-easy-a-caveman-could-do-it' rig but do you think an Air-release or Degassing valve would work? They have a float inside and vent gas until liquid lifts the float...closing the valve.

A little info here.

EDIT: FWIW, if you didn't know, hot liquids are more apt to gas off when you pull vacuum on them so they are harder to prime. They just keep gassing off and the pump keeps cavitating. I dunno why I'm mentioning this. Just try pumping Freon or any other uber-volatile solvent through SS pipes that have been baking in the Florida sun all day...fun, fun, fun.

 

[Bobby_M]

This looks about right:
McMaster-Carr

The cable pull one apparently can't be disassembled for cleaning, while another one on that page can be. I don't know how important that is to you.

Thanks, what a weird place/name for it. Cable pull stop cock.

49375K15
Drain-Thru-Handle Stop Cock Cable Pull, Internal Seal, 1/4" NPT Male
In stock at $5.92 Each

 

[Evan!]

This looks about right:
McMaster-Carr

The cable pull one apparently can't be disassembled for cleaning, while another one on that page can be. I don't know how important that is to you.

good job, LK! I think I might just get that one, along with a tee.

EDIT: note that that's a 1/4" NPT only. So if you want to put it inline, you need a reducing tee (assuming everyone's using 1/2" because that's what the pump is) like a-so: 4429K226

 

[dmaxweb]

This looks about right:
McMaster-Carr

The cable pull one apparently can't be disassembled for cleaning, while another one on that page can be. I don't know how important that is to you.

I must be missing something. How does that valve stop the liquid from flowing through the inline 'tee'? From the McMaster description, it sounds like the valve vents through the handle.

 

[Bobby_M]

It doesn't. The point of that pull valve would be to allow a least path of resistance for air bubbles to escape. You'll still need an inline ball valve to regulate flow of liquid out of the pump. If the loop gets airlocked, you'd pull that valve open until it spits.

 

[IrregularPulse]

So is this the solution for simplifying the pump? I am wanting to add one someday to my setup (once I get a setup) but it sounds like the problems you're all talking about makes it more of a PITA then just using a gravity system.

 

[Evan!]

It doesn't. The point of that pull valve would be to allow a least path of resistance for air bubbles to escape. You'll still need an inline ball valve to regulate flow of liquid out of the pump. If the loop gets airlocked, you'd pull that valve open until it spits.

You think that thing would work the same if you didn't have a ball valve at the pump? I just have one at the kettle, that's it. I could easily add one, but it just seems like the hardware assembly is getting a little heavy there (tee for the pull valve, then nipple, then ball valve, then QD). Gonna look like a goddamned refinery hooked up to my pump

 

[Evan!]

So is this the solution for simplifying the pump? I am wanting to add one someday to my setup (once I get a setup) but it sounds like the problems you're all talking about makes it more of a PITA then just using a gravity system.

I was a little more patient last friday, and opened the kettle valve to let the liquid flow via gravity to the pump before turning it on. I had an instant prime...so maybe I was just overreacting in my OP. But to answer your question, the march pump and recirculating whilrpool IC setup was an awesome upgrade. I LOVE my pump (used it three times so far).

 

[dmaxweb]

What is stopping the liquid from going to the right side of the TEE where the relief valve and copper tubing is?