diminishing flavor?

[BrewMeister49]

I am 2 brews in from my brewing hiatus and have noticed something disappointing. Both beers were malty, one is a FANTASTIC IPA and the other is a Mac n Jacks clone. IPA has/had very citrusy hop flavor and strong malt backbone and it seems that as it carbonated, the whole flavor changed. It gained more bitterness and the hop citrusy went away. Malt is less, but there. Now its just bitter with slight malt. It went from the best IPA we have tasted to meh. Same with the Mac n Jacks. It tasted spot on and then as it carbed up, hop flavor and malt disappeared. Went to a bitter'ish amber. Why? I carbed both at room temp in bottles. Both got 3/4 cup corn sugar (114 grams). 5 gallon batches. Im almost wondering if the whole carbonating process with the corn sugar changes things a bit? I am still scratching my head. The only thing I can think of is that the yeast attack the corn sugar and change up the flavor. Almost like a mini fermentation? ( I know thats how it carbonates but maybe attacking more than the corn sugar?)

 

[BrewMeister49]

I feel I should say that they both tasted FANTASTIC at time of bottling and even in the early carb. Now they both have the same qualities and are just meh. They dang near resemble each other? And room temp is 68-70* where they carbonated. I also fermented both at 68* in a cool brew.

 

[Bosh]

Were they all tasted at the same temp?

 

[BrewMeister49]

Yup. Just had one from both fridge and room temp. Both had the same harsh taste. It's almost like it just get more bitter and less malty and zero hop flavor. This was a hop bomb of a beer too. Just a couple days ago we had it and it was super citrusy and awesome! And now just meh.

 

[Bosh]

Yup. Just had one from both fridge and room temp. Both had the same harsh taste. It's almost like it just get more bitter and less malty and zero hop flavor. This was a hop bomb of a beer too. Just a couple days ago we had it and it was super citrusy and awesome! And now just meh.

One thing that might be doing it is the yeast eating the priming sugar. Having sugar there can bring out other tastes (like malt) and having the yeast eat it leaves more emphasis on the bitter hops. Maybe try to get a bit of a sweeter grain bill next time?

Also simple carbonation can make a better come across as a bit more bitter. Maybe let it stand for a while and see if it getting flatter makes a difference.

Maybe just get a cup, add a bit of sugar and stir it till its flat and the sugar is dissolved and see what happens.

 

[Yooper]

How old are these beers? Hops flavor and aroma fades fast, but not from the fermenter to bottling all that quickly.

 

[BrewMeister49]

I bottled these a few days ago. I'd say last Thursday maybe? They do happen to get a smidge better as they get flatter, but still all the goodness is gone! It just get slightly more malty. Im baffled. I was kegging before and didnt have this issue.

 

[BrewMeister49]

Nevermind, They are maybe a week in the bottle tops.

 

[BrewMeister49]

One thing that might be doing it is the yeast eating the priming sugar. Having sugar there can bring out other tastes (like malt) and having the yeast eat it leaves more emphasis on the bitter hops. Maybe try to get a bit of a sweeter grain bill next time?

Also simple carbonation can make a better come across as a bit more bitter. Maybe let it stand for a while and see if it getting flatter makes a difference.

Maybe just get a cup, add a bit of sugar and stir it till its flat and the sugar is dissolved and see what happens.

Its a 7% abv IPA with 3/4 cup corn sugar. It is however very fizzy. More so than I prefer. It really was very amazing and now its just meh and slightly acrid.


12 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 92.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.8 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 4 20.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 5 31.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 6 7.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.1 %
Bitterness: 72.3 IBUs
Est Color: 10.9 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Calories: 249.1 kcal/12oz

 

[theseeker4]

Its a 7% abv IPA with 3/4 cup corn sugar. It is however very fizzy. More so than I prefer. It really was very amazing and now its just meh and slightly acrid.


12 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 92.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.8 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 4 20.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 5 31.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 6 7.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.1 %
Bitterness: 72.3 IBUs
Est Color: 10.9 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Calories: 249.1 kcal/12oz

I haven't yet had a beer that tasted as good after a week or two in the bottle as it did at bottling time. Your beer needs more time in the bottle before you will know what it's real flavor will be, especially being a bit higher ABV.

 

[BrewMeister49]

How do I hold on to that young flavor? The flavors from simcoe and Amarillo hops was very pleasant and strong. Now just bitterness.

 

[deepbluegroove]

Oxidation is probably what happened during your bottling process.
Oxidation will make nice flavors taste more bland and possibly bitter.
It can also make it change color (this also could be settling of the particulates in the beer itself).
You may need to see if oxygen is getting into your bottling process.
If it is just hop flavor fading; then maybe you can add more hops to the recipe itself (whirlpool hops and dry hops also help)

 

[BrewMeister49]

Funny you say that. I was looking in John Palmers book about off flavors and potentially narrows it a bit. I'm wondering if my water may be in part, ph of my mash or oxidation. I didn't treat my water at all. I will be asking for a water report for sure.

 

[pdxal]

Its a 7% abv IPA with 3/4 cup corn sugar. It is however very fizzy. More so than I prefer. It really was very amazing and now its just meh and slightly acrid.


12 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 92.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.8 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 4 20.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 34.0 min Hop 5 31.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 6 7.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.1 %
Bitterness: 72.3 IBUs
Est Color: 10.9 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Calories: 249.1 kcal/12oz

"Too fizzy" or overcarbonated can also bring out off flavors and cause carbonic acid "bite" and metallic flavors as well as sort of mute malty flavor. If they are better when slightly flatter this could be contributing.

 

[BigMack]

It sounds like they're pretty young in the bottle. I often get a very harsh bitterness if I pop open a bottle before at least 2 weeks from the bottling date. That is often due to small amounts of the yeast still in suspension or the refermentation still taking place in the bottle. My advice would be to let them sit until they have been in the bottle for at least 2 weeks (preferably 3) and then give them a try.