Difference in Clarity b/t Extract and AG

[ChefMichael01]

Like some people have breathalyzers on their car, I should have a beer-IQ test on my keyboard that prevents me from posting in this forum (I'm only 15 batches in). BUT....

My question is: Assuming I didn't screw something up, my 2 AG beers that I have brewed are much more cloudy during primary fermentation than my PM batches. I'm comparing similar types of beers (IPAs/APAs). Curious as to what the science behind this is? Or is it simply the fact that DME/LME are much more refined products "benefiting" from commercial production techniques compared to my relatively crude mashing techniques?

Note: I'm not worried about this being cloudy or asking how to clear the beer, just curious. Thanks all.

 

[Yooper]

My AG wort is crystal clear when I put it in the fermenter. I attribute it to a good hot break, and a really awesome cold break, and using whirlfloc. The wort is as clear as beer. I'm wondering if you have a starch haze (from incomplete conversion) or if it's proteins that didn't coagulate during the hot and cold break.

How does the beer turn out? Is it clear? If it is, I'm thinking it's proteins.

 

[ChefMichael01]

Both beers are still in primary (have only been in there for a couple of weeks). Some notes about my process:

-According to the iodine test I had complete starch conversion (also hit my target gravities perfectly)
-My boil (stovetop) is a good boil but not extremely vigorous and it took me a bit to get them from mashout to boiling temps.
-I cool with a IC to 70F in about 10-12 minutes
-I didn't use Irish Moss or any clearing agents in these AG brews or for that matter, the PM brews I'm comparing them to
-I whirlpool and rack to my fermenter carefully avoiding sucking up any trub

Obviously time will tell to see how they turn out after full fermentation/conditioning, just wanted to see if there was any science to the PM/AG difference.

 

[Yooper]

I think that without using whirlfloc, the proteins are still in solution, or at least not coagulated and dropped out. That's probably why you have a hazy wort.

 

[TheChemist]

The difference between PM an AG is that the process to get the extract will remove most of the protein, so the only clarity issues you might run into would be due to yeast or infection, instead of residual proteins/polyphenols from the grain.

Time between mashout and boil will affect final gravity, but shouldn't do anything to proteins really. If you don't have a good, vigorous boil though, your hot break won't precipitate as many proteins, which can lead to permanent haze. If you do decide that you're worried about it, toss in some Irish Moss 10 min before boil, and see if you can agitate the wort during boil a bit more.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the cold break (ie being careful when racking), since in my experience it falls to the bottom of the fermenter pretty quickly, and in some cases can actually aid yeast growth and flocculation.

The willingness to ask questions shows that your "beer-IQ" is perfect to post in here - good luck in your next AG brews!