Did you break even yet?

[asidrane]

If you have people buy you your equipment as gifts then it goes a long way towards helping you break even. My wife bought me my keggle and immersion chiller and these are two of my more expensive items.

 

[Gameface]

There is no possible way I've broken even. I would consider that a form of failure. Collecting more and bigger and better equipment is the goal as much as making good beer is.

 

[david_42]

It's a hobby. If cheap beer was my goal, I'd just buy Hamm's on sale.

 

[Weeezle007]

Dang..I do by Hamms on sale!! (Hamms Light even). By the way..first batch of Hefe extract costs me $10.40 per bottle..55 bottles. YAY!! By around the 7th batch it gets cost effective..which means I need to drink more HB!! Double YAY!

 

[Kmcogar]

I just averaged $20 a batch for my last 3 batches. I made an ipa. Peanut butter porter, and cream ale.

Just my ingredients puts me at $.40 per good craft beer.

I'm saving money. No doubt. As for the time I put in....I would be just sitting around drinking beer anyways. and if I get a friend to help...they work for beer. Most they will drink is a 6 pack. That averages at $2.40 for someone to help me. I brew good beer with cheap equipment. I'm probably gonna keep it that way too.

 

[bioguy]

You choose to value your time not spent working at $0. That doesn't means it still doesn't have value. Time has inherent value because its finite (as pointed out previously). You ignore time's inherent value under certain circumstances....and that's OK, I do the same thing.

My original point was to those who said they were actually coming out ahead by brewing their own, but were not taking into account their labor. My point was if you are going to count, than count right. Otherwise, do what the rest of us do and blindly ignore the fact there no way you are saving yourself money doing this, other than severely undervaluing your time in which to do it.

That's all I'm saying.

I take issue with the "count right". If I weren't brewing, I might be playing golf for entertainment. In that case, you would count brewing as a savings since it is much cheaper than golf on a per session cost unless you own your own golf course. Instead of paying $40 greens fees, I'm saving that $40 and entertaining myself.

 

[amandabab]

my time? I enjoy it, its fun.
My equipment? They are my toys and I like playing with them.
Its a hobby and a CHEAP hobby compared to most.

2 cases of drinkable beer is over $60.00
ingredients for 2 cases is about $30.00

 

[BrewerBear]

Don't give a damn,don't count my time because I DO NOT care. I make money when i am at work, when I am on my time that is for me to do as I want and I enjoy brewing.

 

[jfr1111]

You choose to value your time not spent working at $0. That doesn't means it still doesn't have value. Time has inherent value because its finite (as pointed out previously). You ignore time's inherent value under certain circumstances....and that's OK, I do the same thing.

My original point was to those who said they were actually coming out ahead by brewing their own, but were not taking into account their labor. My point was if you are going to count, than count right. Otherwise, do what the rest of us do and blindly ignore the fact there no way you are saving yourself money doing this, other than severely undervaluing your time in which to do it.

That's all I'm saying.

By the same token, everytime I cook, instead of going to the restaurant or buying ready made at the grocery store, it's costing me more money because of the "value" I give to my time. As a (in the very near future) civil law notary, the hourly is around 40$ an hour.

A tub of spaghetti sauce for 4 at the grocery store is around 10$. My recipe, when done in huge batches that take 8 hours to prepapre, makes around 10 meals for 4 and costs around 50$ to make in ingredients. If I use your "count right" method, the grocery store stuff is 100$ and mine is almost 400$ for the same volume.

See why it doesn't make any sense ? I get the feeling you want to rationalize your spending by labelling it as a hobby (ie. a money pit). It's fine, nothing wrong with that. But some of us (me included) are in this to save money, or at least break even. And at 1$/beer for swill, it's not as impossible as you want to make it.

 

[Zymurgist05]

I didn't get into homebrewing to save money on the beer I bought. In fact, I didn't drink too much commercial beer back then... well before craft beer became so popular. I started brewing for the past time. At that time, I had no idea that I would invest so much time and money into it. Looking back, I wouldn't change a thing.
Regardless of the cost, brewing has been such a mental relief to me. Those six hours I devote to brew day keeps me from thinking about work and the daily crud that occupies my mind. I focus on the brew process, enjoy some music or sports talk show and have a few beers. Life doesn't get much better for those six hours.

 

[koopa]

If I estimate the value of my homebrew at a meager retail value of $50 per 24x12oz bottles (it's worth every penny), it will take me about 20 months to pay off my entire investment (all equipment and ingredients) as I'm only 16 months in and I'm 87.5% of the way paid off. Of course this doesn't include any cost estimate for labor...I donate my time and energy to this hobby out of love and passion.

 

[pm5k00]

If I estimate the value of my homebrew at a meager retail value of $50 per 24x12oz bottles (it's worth every penny), it will take me about 20 months to pay off my entire investment (all equipment and ingredients) as I'm only 16 months in and I'm 87.5% of the way paid off. Of course this doesn't include any cost estimate for labor...I donate my time and energy to this hobby out of love and passion.

That comes out to 12.50 per six pack, that doesn't seem meager to me, that would be some pricey beer.

 

[pm5k00]

I started homebrewing when I was layed off so I could still afford to drink good beer. I have broke even twice over at least.

 

[koopa]

That comes out to 12.50 per six pack, that doesn't seem meager to me, that would be some pricey beer.

And where I live:


Sam Adams goes for $10 per 6 pack
Sierra Nevada Pale goes for $10 per 6 pack
Brooklyn Lager goes for $10 per 6 pack
Boulder Hazed and Infused goes for $11 per 6 pack
Southampton Double White goes for $11 per 6 pack
Troegs Hopback Amber goes for $11 per 6 pack
Heavy Seas Loose Cannon IPA goes for $11 per 6 pack
Inbev's version of Hoegaarden goes for $12 per 6 pack
Dogfish Head 60 minute goes for $12 per 6 pack
Troegs JavaHead Stout goes for $13 per 6 pack
Founders Pale Ale goes for $13 per 6 pack
Victory Hop Devil goes for $14 per 6 pack
Samuel Smiths goes for $12 per 4 pack
And case discounts are miniscule at best.

I'll take my homebrews over any of these any day.

Don't even get me started on how much property taxes cost on a small lot in the mediocre suburb I live in

But if you want me to drop my value estimate to $40 per case then I'll break even in about 30 months total.

 

[Atvar]

In 3 years and 30 batches, I've pretty much broken even on the brewing side of things. It gets tricky to evaluate how much a bottle is worth. A lot of my first batches were <$1 per bottle (buying by the case). Now it's probably $1.25-$2.00 per bottle depending on style. Going by some other poster's guidelines, I'd have broken even in the first year.

 

[chumpsteak]

I just chuckle everytime I got to the store and see a bomber of mediocre beer for $6.99 when I know I can make it for a fraction of that. Everytime I feel like I've broken even though I just go buy more stuff. This hobby is pretty much the same as the rest of 'em. If you're satisfied with what you have you need to find a new hobby!

 

[trumpetbeard]

If you're satisfied with what you have you need to find a new hobby!

I don't know if I'll ever be satisfied with what I brew, and to me that's the beauty of this hobby.

I'm a semi-professional musician, and that's the beauty of that endeavor as well. You can practice (in brewing terms you can try different styles and techniques), but no matter what you do there's always room for improvement; as you grow as a brewer you will always learn new things about beer and the craft.

I love and enjoy the beer I make, but to adopt a cliché, there's no carrot to chase. I can always find some element of a brew that I'd like to improve or expound upon. As I get better at brewing my tastes evolve, and the process of testing and cultivating that appreciation of what real beer is and can be is well worth the cost of equipment and the continual investment in quality ingredients. I may have broken even on the cost ledger, but I hope that I'm getting more in personal points than dollars can account for.

 

[broadbill]

I take issue with the "count right". If I weren't brewing, I might be playing golf for entertainment. In that case, you would count brewing as a savings since it is much cheaper than golf on a per session cost unless you own your own golf course. Instead of paying $40 greens fees, I'm saving that $40 and entertaining myself.

This is like saying that you went to the casino with $100, lost it all at the table and concluded that you broke even just because you only lost what you were planning to gamble.

The reality is that there is $100 in your bank account.

 

[broadbill]

By the same token, everytime I cook, instead of going to the restaurant or buying ready made at the grocery store, it's costing me more money because of the "value" I give to my time. As a (in the very near future) civil law notary, the hourly is around 40$ an hour.

A tub of spaghetti sauce for 4 at the grocery store is around 10$. My recipe, when done in huge batches that take 8 hours to prepapre, makes around 10 meals for 4 and costs around 50$ to make in ingredients. If I use your "count right" method, the grocery store stuff is 100$ and mine is almost 400$ for the same volume.

See why it doesn't make any sense ? I get the feeling you want to rationalize your spending by labelling it as a hobby (ie. a money pit). It's fine, nothing wrong with that. But some of us (me included) are in this to save money, or at least break even. And at 1$/beer for swill, it's not as impossible as you want to make it.

I had a point-for-point answer to your reply but decided to take a different tack, so I hope you entertain me:

If you are truly breaking even with homebrewing, is it true that you would also breaking even at the commercial level? Why or why not?

Assume you already have a brewery up and operating and would not have to pay any start-up costs.

 

[AmandaK]

I have NO IDEA how you guys come to the conclusion that you're "breaking even" with this hobby. Yes, it's a hobby and I don't track the costs to be anal, I'm just curious. But I'm a Cost Analyst, so such is life.

I have a spreadsheet that I track every equipment purchase, sorted by type (Brewing/Kegging/Bottling/Fermenting), the ingredient cost and my bulk purchases.

So far, I'm 55 batches in, I haven't bought craft beer in quite a long time, and I'm down to $10.14 per sixer. Am I saving money? Absolutely not. Am I having a blast? You betcha.

 

[rhamilton]

I have NO IDEA how you guys come to the conclusion that you're "breaking even" with this hobby. Yes, it's a hobby and I don't track the costs to be anal, I'm just curious. But I'm a Cost Analyst, so such is life.

BIAB is the huge difference for me. Propane burner kits are under $100 with an aluminum pot. Throw in a $5 mesh bag and you are ready to brew. You can spend another $100 for ball valve, sight glass, thermometer, but that is an unnecessary expense.

I'm at least $1000+ up (without labor factor) over my past year of brewing. Now if I went three-tier with Boilmakers, now I'm at the very least $1000 in the hole.

 

[jfr1111]

I had a point-for-point answer to your reply but decided to take a different tack, so I hope you entertain me:

If you are truly breaking even with homebrewing, is it true that you would also breaking even at the commercial level? Why or why not?

Assume you already have a brewery up and operating and would not have to pay any start-up costs.

At the end of the day, when the beer is all in the bottles and I drink my first pint, I have more money in my pocket than if I had bought a comparable beer off the shelf, even if I take into account fuel and equipement costs. You said it yourself, it's a hobby. It's not a job. We're not commercial brewers and we'll never be. The time I invest in brewing I would not invest in a money earning endeavour so my time is worth 0$. As someone eloquently said before, I'd be sitting on ass. My hobby doesn't scale to commercial level for one good reason: it has jack-diddly squat to do with commercial brewing except the fermentation of wort into beer.

I might have less "virtual money" or whatever currency my free time is supposedly valued at, but my wallet is still heavier in real life. Sorry.

 

[jfr1111]

BIAB is the huge difference for me. Propane burner kits are under $100 with an aluminum pot. Throw in a $5 mesh bag and you are ready to brew. You can spend another $100 for ball valve, sight glass, thermometer, but that is an unnecessary expense.

I'm at least $1000+ up (without labor factor) over my past year of brewing. Now if I went three-tier with Boilmakers, now I'm at the very least $1000 in the hole.

Bingo. It's once you start upgrading that you trade convenience/repeatability for cost effectiveness. It also depends on the styles you brew. Hops aren't cheap.

 

[jfr1111]

So far, I'm 55 batches in, I haven't bought craft beer in quite a long time, and I'm down to $10.14 per sixer. Am I saving money? Absolutely not. Am I having a blast? You betcha.

Depending on what you brew, if you were in Quebec, there's a very big chance you would be breaking even. A sixer of Unibroue is usually 12$. On rebate.

 

[fbaillargeon]

True, and usually the 24oz bottle is around 7$ for Unibroue, smaller craft breweries are around 5$ for 16 oz to boot. Quebec is expensive on everything alcohol related, wine, spirits beer is taxed up the wazoo. I'm fine with it though.

 

[cheezydemon3]

The problem is that "Free" beer on tap goes quicker than the beer you have to drive somewhere and pay for.

ALSO comparing homebrew to bars or ball parks is a little off IMHO. Unless you NEVER bought beer and took it home.

compared to Buying beer at the store and bringing it home, there is no way I am ahead. Doesn't bother me in the least. I am drinking $12 a sixer beer for $5 a sixer.

If I was buying, I would NEVER buy a $12 sixer every time. To compare apples to oranges is fooling yourself.

 

[koopa]

I have NO IDEA how you guys come to the conclusion that you're "breaking even" with this hobby. Yes, it's a hobby and I don't track the costs to be anal, I'm just curious. But I'm a Cost Analyst, so such is life.

I have a spreadsheet that I track every equipment purchase, sorted by type (Brewing/Kegging/Bottling/Fermenting), the ingredient cost and my bulk purchases.

So far, I'm 55 batches in, I haven't bought craft beer in quite a long time, and I'm down to $10.14 per sixer. Am I saving money? Absolutely not. Am I having a blast? You betcha.

I have a brewing partner who owes me money towards our costs so I have been tracking all of them...nothing to do with being anal (although I am anal!). I'm 41 batches in and my cost on a 6 pack ranges from $2 - $8 but I'm buying grain through a homebrew club group buy at $0.67 cents per lb delivered on base malt and hops at $1.05 per oz delivered when buying by the lb which makes a tremendous difference.

 

[eastoak]

i just bought a stainless steel hop spider ($100+) a new burner for my top tier ($155).....no, i have not broken even.

 

[JiBiru8]

Depending on what you brew, if you were in Quebec, there's a very big chance you would be breaking even. A sixer of Unibroue is usually 12$. On rebate.

+1

A sixer of a Japanese craft brew here is ~$30. A sixer of a BMC type beer is ~$15. And it does not get much cheaper buying at Costco or a big supermarket.

The cheapest beer I've seen is the Kirkland brand beers. Costco sells the 12 packs or whatever they come in, but Nissin, a big supermarket catering to foreign foods, was selling singles for less than a domestic BMC type beer, at ~$2.40/each.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I have surely broken even, SAVED money too be honest.

My original all grain equipment setup costed me about $100 total. 2 free kegs, 1 from a friend who was tossing one, the other for 10 bucks from some random craigslister, plus a cooler mash tun and a cheapy valve from osh. Couple of carboys and the total was <$100.

With that we average about $.30-$1.00 a beer (OBVIOUSLY not including "Labor" which is free on weekends around here!) The cheapest beer I can get from the store is a 24 pack of SNPA and even that's pushing >$1.00/beer and to be honest, it's a great beer, but drinking it non stop gets old.

IF we run out of beer we typically grab a sixer of something from a specialty liquor store that has many styles of craft brew, but obviously for a price. $12 for a 4 pack of 90 minute IPA? Great beer, not gonna pay that though!

It's all about the age old dilemma between time vs money. I could have went out and purchased all of my stuff from a store and paid a LOT more from it, but I'm in it for good beer, and most of all, CHEAP. I don't have any money anyways, so the whole "I NEED IT NOW" doesn't apply to me.