DFH 120 minute clone

[kosmokramer]

What temp did you mash at? I did mine at like 147 to maximize fermentanles

 

[sfrisby]

148*. And I would expect the temp to be associated with the s-05 to get it to 1.029, not the sugar additions with 099 afterwards.

 

[kosmokramer]

Ahhh very true... did you add any yeast nutrient or servo

 

[sfrisby]

Ahhh very true... did you add any yeast nutrient or servo

I did to the boil, not to the 099. I added O2 to the 099 starter. That was the only addition to the starter.

 

[nvrstck]

"Tactical Nuclear Kraken" Time to Release the Kraken (e.g. Krausen)!
Brewed 2/23/13 at my friend's house in another state and he has been managing the fermentation.

24gal batch
76.5# Pilsner 2-Row Malt
2# Amber Malt
2# Crystal 45L Malt
MASHED 90min at 147F
BOILED 100min
Late extract add (last 10min): 2# DME & 4# Dark Liquid Candi Sugar 180L
HOPS:
First Wort - 16oz Warrior
20min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
15min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
10min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
5min - 4oz Citra & 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
0min (flame out) - 4oz Citra & 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus

PITCHED 12 packs Safale American US-05 (no starter). Added 2tbsp yeast nutrient.
Oxygenated with O2 stone prior to pitching and each day for first 7 days in primary.
On Day 3, started adding 40# of Dextrose, 24oz at a time, 2x per day.
On Day 5, Pitched 3 gal starter of SHG WLP099 with a lot of Yeast nutrient (starter included 0.5gal of wort from the batch).
His 27gal Blichmann Fermenator didn't have much headspace left so drained some trub from bottom prior to pitching 3gal starter.

Day 8: Have added 20# of dextrose so far (missed a day) and gravity prior to adding was 1.020 (~16-17% ABV).

There are some different things in the recipe like the 180L candi sugar and a mix of hops. We had a lot of Zeus laying around so decided to use that after we cleaned out the LHBS when buying all the Amarillo, Citra & Simcoe. Our mash wasn't very efficient so we added the DME and 180L to increase the OG. Once the yeast starts dying off (we are shooting for 20%+ ABV) then we'll drain the yeast cake from the bottom then start the secondary conditioning.
DRY HOP:
14 days: 4oz each of Citra & Zeus + 3oz each of Amarillo & Simcoe
7 days: 4oz each of Citra & Zeus + 3oz each of Amarillo & Simcoe

After 14 days of secondary, cold crash for 2-3 days, rack to cornys, force carbonate (~2.2vols) & bottle in 12oz bottles with scottland's wax tops. Sample liberally :cross:

 

[scottland]

Wow, that is flipping awesome. We're going to need some pictures when it's done.

 

[nvrstck]

Brew Magic RIMS system with 27gal Fermenator and Chill Wizard. We combined two ~12 gal batches into one 24gal batch. Wort picture is Tactical Nuclear Kraken on Day 8.

 

[Akavango]

Insane brew and great system you have there.

 

[Jsmith82]

Look at that setup.............!

 

[scottland]

No kidding, talk about brewing bling.

 

[ianmatth]

I'm brewing a high ABV QIPA (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/13-hop-qipa-aka-plinyfish-heady-120-a-437125/index3.html) based off your recipe and just read through this entire thread. Looks like I might not want to push it past the 1.150 OG it's at now because 1.020 will be too sweet for my tastes. I also want to bottle condition, so I guess I will try champagne yeast. Just wondering if anyone has a suggestion for how much champagne yeast and sugar to add per bottle. I normally add 2g of sucrose to my DIPAs and get what I would say is 2.0-2.2 volumes of CO2 after a week or two.

 

[kosmokramer]

"Tactical Nuclear Kraken" Time to Release the Kraken (e.g. Krausen)!
Brewed 2/23/13 at my friend's house in another state and he has been managing the fermentation.

24gal batch
76.5# Pilsner 2-Row Malt
2# Amber Malt
2# Crystal 45L Malt
MASHED 90min at 147F
BOILED 100min
Late extract add (last 10min): 2# DME & 4# Dark Liquid Candi Sugar 180L
HOPS:
First Wort - 16oz Warrior
20min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
15min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
10min - 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
5min - 4oz Citra & 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus
0min (flame out) - 4oz Citra & 2oz each of Amarillo, Simcoe & Zeus

PITCHED 12 packs Safale American US-05 (no starter). Added 2tbsp yeast nutrient.
Oxygenated with O2 stone prior to pitching and each day for first 7 days in primary.
On Day 3, started adding 40# of Dextrose, 24oz at a time, 2x per day.
On Day 5, Pitched 3 gal starter of SHG WLP099 with a lot of Yeast nutrient (starter included 0.5gal of wort from the batch).
His 27gal Blichmann Fermenator didn't have much headspace left so drained some trub from bottom prior to pitching 3gal starter.

Day 8: Have added 20# of dextrose so far (missed a day) and gravity prior to adding was 1.020 (~16-17% ABV).

There are some different things in the recipe like the 180L candi sugar and a mix of hops. We had a lot of Zeus laying around so decided to use that after we cleaned out the LHBS when buying all the Amarillo, Citra & Simcoe. Our mash wasn't very efficient so we added the DME and 180L to increase the OG. Once the yeast starts dying off (we are shooting for 20%+ ABV) then we'll drain the yeast cake from the bottom then start the secondary conditioning.
DRY HOP:
14 days: 4oz each of Citra & Zeus + 3oz each of Amarillo & Simcoe
7 days: 4oz each of Citra & Zeus + 3oz each of Amarillo & Simcoe

After 14 days of secondary, cold crash for 2-3 days, rack to cornys, force carbonate (~2.2vols) & bottle in 12oz bottles with scottland's wax tops. Sample liberally :cross:

I just picked up a 27 gallon heated and cooled conical and can't wait to brew this again but with that much grain and sugar I would hate to make a mistake although my last 7 gallon batch was amazing

 

[nvrstck]

I just picked up a 27 gallon heated and cooled conical and can't wait to brew this again but with that much grain and sugar I would hate to make a mistake although my last 7 gallon batch was amazing

I think you'll do fine. No worries. This beer has been incredible! We didn't realize how huge the yeast cake was. Thought we had drained most of it from the bottom of the conical after primary was done but when we went to transfer to Corny's realized the entire cone was plugged up. Cooling will be nice since that yeast cake in the cone put off some serious heat. This brew yielded four full 5gal Corny's.

 

[kosmokramer]

I think you'll do fine. No worries. This beer has been incredible! We didn't realize how huge the yeast cake was. Thought we had drained most of it from the bottom of the conical after primary was done but when we went to transfer to Corny's realized the entire cone was plugged up. Cooling will be nice since that yeast cake in the cone put off some serious heat. This brew yielded four full 5gal Corny's.

mine was great the first time too, and having a conical will make it so much easier....the other awesome thing is since the last time i brewed this i have opened a homebrew shop, wholesale costs plus tax deduction =

this time i will do a ten gallon batch of a low grav pale with 007 and pitch the whole washed sluury and then make a couple 5000 ml starters of 099, i didnt aerate at all last time and the drop of olive oil work awesome so ill prolly go that route again.... thanks for the encouraging words

 

[kosmokramer]

Are you guys puling a sample and mixing in the dextrose or just pouring on top?

 

[bottlebomber]

Are you guys puling a sample and mixing in the dextrose or just pouring on top?

When I made mine I melted it down in a little water to make a syrup. It doesn't take much water and I doubt if it diluted it noticeably.

 

[ianmatth]

I used a glass measuring cup and mixed the sugar with my sample before I poured it back in.

 

[BigIrukandji]

OK, so this has been such a long journey for me. I did a 15 gallon batch.

....long story short

The batch is stuck @ 1.070
O.G. with all of the sugar calculations is 1.177

I have tried pitching a 6 gallon (decanted) starter of WLP099 back onto it....nothing happened after weeks of waiting. I also tried raising the temperature to 70 degrees....nothing.

I figured WTH, it may be OK, so I dry hopped anyways, and kegged it. I figured that the carbonation and hops would help the flavor. I just tried it tonight, and it's disgustingly sweet. I've talked it over with a friend, and he had an idea that may save me from dumping all 15 gallons.

What if?
1. Take it out of the keg and dilute it 50% with water.
2. With the now lower gravity and ABV, repitch.
3. Once fermentation hopefully finishes out....ice concentrate the beer.
4. Rekeg it to force carbonate it.

I could really use some input here.

 

[FRS]

That's an interesting idea. Desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose you have nothing to lose by trying it out. I might pull off a couple liters and try it on that scale before diluting the whole 10 gallons.

What was your OG before the sugar additions? Is it possible you had mash issues which lead the malt portion of the wort to be very unfermentable? (In which case you may need some fresh enzymatic activity to save it)



Sent from my Nexus 4 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[BigIrukandji]

No, it is not from unfermentables. I've seen the gravity as low as 1.030 before adding any sugar at all.

 

[sfrisby]

Then if it is all simple sugars, maybe add some champagne yeast that is cheap, high alcohol tolerance, and should chew up simple sugars.

 

[ianmatth]

Bumping up the gravity from 1.030 to 1.070 is definitely not the way to go for a high ABV beer, if you do such a batch in the future, you should bump it up by 10 points at a time tops and wait for it to come back down before adding sugar. It seems like you added way too much sugar and overwhelmed the yeast. Also, if you already added WLP099 and it didn't get the job done, no other yeast is. Diluting sounds like a good idea though. It will get your gravity lower and then maybe some ACTIVE (meaning don't cold crash your starter) WLP099 can do something. Also I would recommend using http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ and use your calculated OG from your original wort before adding sugar and a target pitch rate of 1.25 to figure out how many cells you really need. I'd also recommend stepping up multiple starters rather than making one big starter.

 

[BigIrukandji]

I have a few things to try yet. Here is what I'm going to do.

1. Take a 1 gallon glass jug and fill it 3/4 full with what I have that is 1.070
2. Pitch a freshly hydrated packet of EC-1118, and see what the gravity looks like in several days.
3. If that doesn't work, then I could try the same experiment with WLP099, but this time don't cold crash it to decant off the starter beer. I'm reluctant to try WLP099 again since I decanted 2 x 6 gallon starters and the second time it did nothing (but maybe that's because it wasn't really active since I cold crashed it).
4. If that doesn't work, then I'll try again but dilute the beer first...then freeze concentrate it afterwards.

I figure that the dilute, then repitch, then freeze concentrate method will be the absolute last resort option to try.

 

[nvrstck]

I have a few things to try yet. Here is what I'm going to do.

1. Take a 1 gallon glass jug and fill it 3/4 full with what I have that is 1.070
2. Pitch a freshly hydrated packet of EC-1118, and see what the gravity looks like in several days.

Your beer is about 15% ABV so it will be tough to get that restarted. Try making a small starter with the EC1118 first using a 50/50 mixture of water and the 1.070 beer so the yeast isn't shocked when it is pitched to the 15% ABV. When you made the 6 gal starter, did you step it up to that? You need more than 2 trillion cells and you definitely have to get there using 3 steps if starting with 50-200 billion cells.

I wonder if anyone has tried gently stirring the massive yeast cake to get the yeast back into solution? In my 24 gal batch, there was easily 3 gal of sludge in the fermenter.

 

[BigIrukandji]

Yes it was stepped up. First a gallon, then 3, then 5. I concur with the 3 gallons of yeast when I emptied the conical.

Here's where I'm at.

I tried pitching the rehydrated EC-1118 on a gallon of the beer with zero results. Next I tried the same thing with 50/50 water and beer. It's now fermenting nicely on that 1 gallon. Tonight I decided to try the same thing with the WLP099 to see how well that works. I'm going to do 1/2 gallon of beer, 1/4 gallon of water, 1/4 gallon starter with 1 vial. I also threw a small amount of the yeast from the initial fermentation into the starter.

A few big questions are now on my mind:
1. If the EC-1118 and WLP099 do equally well on the diluted beer, then which yeast do I decide on?

2. Once I decide on a yeast (leaning towards the WLP099), do I dare to pitch it directly onto 4-5 gallons of beer to see if it can handle it; or do I dilute again 50/50 or 60/40ish?

If I dilute (which I'm strongly leaning towards), then I still planning on freeze concentrating it once the fermentation is done again. I currently have about 15.5 gallons of beer. So diluting will give me around 25-30 gallons of fermented beer. I'll have to freeze concentrate it by 50% once I'm all done if I go that route. I really wonder how much this will effect the taste, but at this point I'm not sure I'll be able to dry it out any other way.

 

[nvrstck]

I don't like the idea of you having to dilute the entire bacth then freeze distilling after all the work you've already done so far. I would save that as the last resort. I was only suggesting diluting the beer that would be used to rehydrate the yeast. Now that that started going, you can turn that gallon into a bigger starter using some more beer. Then I'd repitch that starter to the full batch and I think it should take off. The idea is to get the yeast used to the fermenting your beer instead of a DME starter solution. I have used WLP099 to ~19+% ABV and don't have experience with the EC-1118 at this gravity so I'd stick with the WLP099. To answer your second question, I guess you could try adding some of the beer directly to the starter to step it up that way without diluting it. You could measure the gravity of your starter after the first 50/50 step then add the right volume of 1.070 beer to get the starter gravity to 1.035-1.040. So if your 1gal starter is now at 1.020, then if you add 0.75gal of 1.070 beer, you'd now have a 1.75 gal starter that is used to fermenting your beer and probably is ready to pitch to the entire batch. I may consider doing that once again (eg, stepping the 1.75gal to ~3gal) depending on how well you think the yeast is doing. I don't know, I'm just making all this up on the fly but that is one of the awesome things about beer, you can MacGyver the hell out of it. I've never had a batch of beer go bad...one time I turned a pale ale into an undrinkable banana ester beer by underpitching by a huge amount (it turns out that you shouldn't wash yeast using starsan, lol) but saved the whole batch by pitching brett to it and waiting several months- it ate all the esters and I ended up with a funky pale. Be sure to give your yeast some more yeast nutrient and maybe even hit it with some oxygen on your first step.

One unrelated lesson I learned from my DFH 120min is to wait until after you have reached terminal gravity to dry hop. Otherwise the yeast will blow all that aroma right out of the airlock while it's viciously fermenting.

 

[BigIrukandji]

OK, so I ended up using EC-1118 since it was all simple sugars. In the end, I ended up adding roughly 4 gallons of water throughout the process to get the gravity from 1.077 down to 1.040. The main activity has slowed down, but there should still be several days of fermentation yet. I'm hoping I can get it down to at least 1.035, where it should be drinkable. Once the fermentation is done, I'll pull off a bit to try and see how sweet it is at that point. At that point I'll make a decision if I'll just stick to the 18-19 gallons that I have right now, or if I'll freeze concentrate it down to 15 gallons or so. Either way, it looks like this batch has been saved...although it won't taste nearly as hoppy...it'll probably taste more like a barleywine.

I'll post another update in a few weeks or a month or so.

 

[ianmatth]

You might want to try alpha amylase. I hear that can make a big difference.

 

[berny88]

I am both a brewer and a mead maker and was thinking of doing this clone. I have a boatload of honey right now and was thinking of substituting the dextrose in this recipe with the honey I have. I would use it in the exact fashion as the recipe calls (adding in doses throughout fermentation). Any thoughts on how this would work?

 

[ianmatth]

I am both a brewer and a mead maker and was thinking of doing this clone. I have a boatload of honey right now and was thinking of substituting the dextrose in this recipe with the honey I have. I would use it in the exact fashion as the recipe calls (adding in doses throughout fermentation). Any thoughts on how this would work?

I've heard honey attenuates much slower. If that is the case it would not be a good substitute for dextrose. You need something that attenuates fast.