Desired Final Gravity for a Sweet Stout

[Morrey]

I've made a Sweet Stout before, but they are not on my radar screen, so I don't really have a gauge for what is considered an ideal FG for this beer. My wife requested this beer for an after dinner sweet cordial or something that satisfies a sweet tooth in lieu of a dessert. I doubt I'll drink much of it, but I'm the kind of brewer who wants to make a beer the best I can regardless of whether I want that style or not.

I brewed her beer similar to a Left Hand Milk Stout which I designed on BeerSmith using 1# of Lactose milk sugar in a 5.5G batch. I made the choice to use S-04 yeast since I had fresh sachets on hand.

After adding the lactose at the end of the boil, my OG was 1.067. I started fermentation at 64F and the yeast took off like a rocket. After 4 days I bumped the temps to 68F to encourage complete fermentation and the FG is now stable at 1.022 after two weeks. I am crashing now and will add my cocoa nib tincture and rack to keg tomorrow which is exactly 2 weeks from brew date.

1.022 seems VERY sweet to me, but keep in mind I am drinking Brut IPAs lately. Most all of my go-to beers finish under 1.010, so 1.022 seems overly sweet. My question is: Is 1.022 in the acceptable FG range for a Sweet Stout?

Also, is my logic correct on this: If I had NOT added 1# of lactose, my OG may have come in at 1.057 since the lactose likely added around 10 "non-fermentable" gravity points....right? So if the S-04 attenuated at 75-77%, the beer w/o lactose may finish around 1.012. Add 10 points to that with the lactose, now I am back to 1.022. Right?

Lastly, when I make this again, should I attempt to lower the FG a shade? Had I used US-05, I feel the beer may have attenuated a few more points and settled in at 1.018. Not sure, so I'm seeking advice to learn what may be best on my next attempt. Thanks!

 

[dmtaylor]

All your logic is consistent with my understanding. Before I even read your post, I was going to say 1.022 is a pretty good FG for a sweet stout, and I see that's what you have. If that's a little too much for you, next time aim for 1.019 or something like that. You did alright. If you find the sweetness too cloying for your tastes, you might want to consider a very minor dilution with plain water to bring FG and sweetness down a notch, but without significant effect on the total flavor.

Cheers.

 

[thehaze]

A Sweet Stout would definitely benefit from a more flavourful yeats, so S-04 would still be good, but you could try Nottingham, which attenuates far better. As for the FG: I would not call that sweet. I've drank beers that had a much higher FG and did not feel overly sweet or chewy, but these had a much higher ABV.

If the beer is not for you, then it should not matter that much. I think your wife will appreciate the fuller body and mouthfeel, so 1.022 is not a lot. Last summer I brewed a small 5.5% IPA, which should have been 6.5%, but used S-33, hence the poot attenuation. It finished at 1.022. It was neither sweet, full, chewy or otherwise. Crisp and a grapefruit juice/rind bomb. Tasty. I had others try it and never mentioned any sweetness.

I would say it's relative up to a point. And I think if you can get it to attenuate more next time, it will not be a worse beer. I don't think it will be better either, unless you change the recipe grains and make it extra delicious.

Cheers!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I think you're spot on. I'm designing a Sweet/Milk Stout myself and it's estimated FG is 1.023. The recipes I've seen here on HBT are all in the same ballpark - 1.018 - 1.027. I think it will be just fine.

 

[Morrey]

Thanks for the feedback! I feel more confident racking the beer into keg tomorrow knowing that savvy brewers are collectively saying 1.022 should be just fine for a Sweet Stout. I think the wife will appreciate the mouthfeel this beer offers since I have been tasting the samples all along. I think she'll be happy with the results....and after all, she did ask for a sweet beer.

 

[Morrey]

Now that y'all have made me feel confident with an FG of 1.022, the real star of the show is yet to come....The Tincture:

I toasted cacao nibs in a dry pan until they smelled like brownies cooking. Let them cool and covered with a cup of vodka and let soak one week in a covered container. Strained the nibs and collected (saved) the vodka in a separate container, then covered the nibs again with half cup of Captain Morgan's spiced rum for another week. I'll combine these two tinctures tomorrow morning and add into fermenter prior to transfer into keg.

BTW...these tinctures are amazingly delicious. If not intended for the Stout, I'd be tempted to sip these like cordials. Wow they are awesome, and toasting the nibs really makes the flavors pop.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I've never toasted the nibs. I'll have to give that a shot when I go to do my next imperial stout. How hot/long did you toast them for?

Looking forward to hearing the reviews on this. Sounds delicious! I'm on the fence with my BBA Cherry Pie Imperial Stout that I'm planning. I'm either going to try going for a cherry pie stout or a chocolate covered cherry stout. If I go the latter, I'll definitely try toasting the nibs.

 

[Morrey]

I've never toasted the nibs. I'll have to give that a shot when I go to do my next imperial stout. How hot/long did you toast them for?

Looking forward to hearing the reviews on this. Sounds delicious! I'm on the fence with my BBA Cherry Pie Imperial Stout that I'm planning. I'm either going to try going for a cherry pie stout or a chocolate covered cherry stout. If I go the latter, I'll definitely try toasting the nibs.

I toasted the nibs very slowly over low heat in a dry non-stick sauté pan...no oil of course. Stir occasionally so they don't burn as you want them just lightly toasted to release their fragrance.

You have given me an idea regarding chocolate covered cherries....just thinking out loud here: Toast nibs and cover with vodka for a week, then strain out nibs, Take a jar of maraschino cherries, save a few teaspoons of the juice to add into the chocolate infused vodka and rough chop cherries. Put the rough chopped cherries into the vodka and muddle the cherries with a muddler or wooden dowel so the cherry essence will infuse the chocolate vodka. Let sit a day or so, then strain and use as a chocolate covered cherry tincture. Think that would work?

 

[Rob2010SS]

That's actually pretty nice! I like that idea a lot. I always get tunnel vision and always think you have to do everything separately. I was thinking transfer out of the bourbon barrel and into a tertiary fermenter with the toasted nibs and the cherries. But I think I like your idea better. It sounds easier actually. I may change the vodka to be a bourbon, since it'll be in a bourbon barrel anyway, but I think i'm going to use your idea. I feel like I could just add the tincture to the barrel and save me from the 3rd transfer, no?

 

[Morrey]

Idea exchanges often work when two folks combine ideas into one great idea.

My experience is that it takes a large amount of fresh fruit to get minimal flavor infusion results, plus fruit fiber tends be bothersome along with volume losses. If a tincture like we are discussing works, that effort saves time and results in a cleaner product. Then when you go into your bourbon barrel with clean beer, you get a flavor depth and smoothness from that aging process. My guess is that your idea may make quite a nice beer in a fairly simple and straightforward process.

Even if you end up only soaking the nibs in bourbon and using that tincture w/o the cherries, you'll have one less step and those nibs are messy unless contained. You may elect to use real cherries in the barrel, but I remember Wicked Weed saying it takes "tons" of cherries to infuse their barrel aged, cherry infused sours. But Maraschino is a different cherry than the ones used by breweries for barrel aging. The way I was envisioning a tincture is more like an actual chocolate covered cherry candy.

Either way you go with this, I am interested to hear your results.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Idea exchanges often work when two folks combine ideas into one great idea.

My experience is that it takes a large amount of fresh fruit to get minimal flavor infusion results, plus fruit fiber tends be bothersome along with volume losses. If a tincture like we are discussing works, that effort saves time and results in a cleaner product. Then when you go into your bourbon barrel with clean beer, you get a flavor depth and smoothness from that aging process. My guess is that your idea may make quite a nice beer in a fairly simple and straightforward process.

Even if you end up only soaking the nibs in bourbon and using that tincture w/o the cherries, you'll have one less step and those nibs are messy unless contained. You may elect to use real cherries in the barrel, but I remember Wicked Weed saying it takes "tons" of cherries to infuse their barrel aged, cherry infused sours. But Maraschino is a different cherry than the ones used by breweries for barrel aging. The way I was envisioning a tincture is more like an actual chocolate covered cherry candy.

Either way you go with this, I am interested to hear your results.

I'll definitely keep you posted. It's next on my list after I do the chocolate peanut butter milk stout this weekend. As I'm developing the plan, I may DM you and we can chat about it. Thanks for the ideas!

(P.S. Didn't mean to hijack your thread)

 

[Morrey]

I'll definitely keep you posted. It's next on my list after I do the chocolate peanut butter milk stout this weekend. As I'm developing the plan, I may DM you and we can chat about it. Thanks for the ideas!

(P.S. Didn't mean to hijack your thread)

Hijacks are ok in my book...I got good info on the FG so all is well.

How are you doing the peanut butter flavor? I thought PB powder may work but heard it may be more challenging than I thought. Someone else said PB extract was actually pretty decent.

PM me anytime.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Hijacks are ok in my book...I got good info on the FG so all is well.

How are you doing the peanut butter flavor? I thought PB powder may work but heard it may be more challenging than I thought. Someone else said PB extract was actually pretty decent.

PM me anytime.

I'm actually doing a combination of all of it.

1 lb PB2 in the last 10 minutes of the boil
1 lb of natural PB that I'll be de-oiling for the next 4 weeks, added to secondary
Apex Peanut Butter flavoring to taste at time of kegging

A lot of people use PB2 but there's a lot of mixed reviews on it. Some like it, some hate it. I figure if I try both ways and sample along the way, I'll know what each one contributed and if I like it better than the other. As far as the flavoring, I'm not 100% sure if I'll use it. I'll buy it to make sure I have it, but I'll taste at time of kegging to see if it's really needed.

 

[Morrey]

De-oiling natural PB sounds interesting...what is your process to accomplish that?

 

[Rob2010SS]

De-oiling natural PB sounds interesting...what is your process to accomplish that?

Oh it's this very high complexity process that only someone really technically savvy would understand.... LOL.

Essentially, dump the oil from the jar, spread out the peanut butter on some paper towels in a dish that you can close, and every 2-3 days flip the PB cake and replace the towels. 3-4 weeks later, you have a fairly dry PB cake! At least, from what I read, that's how it goes. We'll see how it REALLY goes when I start it this weekend, lol.

 

[Morrey]

I bet PB2 is pretty similar in that its de-oiled and dehydrated. Interesting for sure!

 

[couchsending]

FG of Single Shot from Treehouse is 1.036... it’s a 6.5% Beer

Just for reference

 

[Morrey]

FG of Single Shot from Treehouse is 1.036... it’s a 6.5% Beer

Just for reference

WOW...that's way higher than I'd expect. But with a good amount of ABV in the beer, I bet that balances the residual sweetness. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[couchsending]

WOW...that's way higher than I'd expect. But with a good amount of ABV in the beer, I bet that balances the residual sweetness. Thanks for letting me know.

I think the higher FG helps to balance the roast character. It allows you to use more roasted malts so you end up with a stronger flavor profile.

 

[Morrey]

As an update: The sweet stout in question is carbed and conditioning in my lager chamber just chilling out and ripening. I popped a picnic tap on the keg and took a quick sample to find the 1.024 FG is really not overbearing at all. It surprised me that the mouthfeel and taste doesn't indicate that high of an FG. My wife commented - "its not nearly as sweet as I thought it would be". So far, so good.

 

[Rob2010SS]

As an update: The sweet stout in question is carbed and conditioning in my lager chamber just chilling out and ripening. I popped a picnic tap on the keg and took a quick sample to find the 1.024 FG is really not overbearing at all. It surprised me that the mouthfeel and taste doesn't indicate that high of an FG. My wife commented - "its not nearly as sweet as I thought it would be". So far, so good.

Nice. Mine came out very close to that as well. 1.025 I'm calling it. It really isn't as sweet as you'd think, like you said.

 

[jimmyjusa]

I toasted the nibs very slowly over low heat in a dry non-stick sauté pan...no oil of course. Stir occasionally so they don't burn as you want them just lightly toasted to release their fragrance.

You have given me an idea regarding chocolate covered cherries....just thinking out loud here: Toast nibs and cover with vodka for a week, then strain out nibs, Take a jar of maraschino cherries, save a few teaspoons of the juice to add into the chocolate infused vodka and rough chop cherries. Put the rough chopped cherries into the vodka and muddle the cherries with a muddler or wooden dowel so the cherry essence will infuse the chocolate vodka. Let sit a day or so, then strain and use as a chocolate covered cherry tincture. Think that would work?

What about using a cherry vodka to use as your tincture liquid with the cocoa nibs? With that you'll have a known cherry flavor amount you are starting with. Just a random thought.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think 1.022 is a bit low for a stout, but it is a lower gravity stout. My Porter finished higher than that, but it had an OG of 1.083 (and finished at about 1.028).

I brewed a big stout (1.126 OG) last january. I wanted a nice mouthfeel and and some residual sweetness so I mashed high and had a decent amount of crystal. It finished at 1.034 and it's in no way too sweet. I was targeting closer to 1.040.

I aged it with a charred oak stave soaked in bourbon and added 3 oz of cocoa nibs (untoasted). I just bottle about 2 weeks ago and it's amazing. Certainly not overly sweet but at that ABV, it's a sipper for sure. It's really almost exactly what I want in a stout: nice thick mouthfeel, not overly roasty (I hate stouts that taste like someone emptied an ashtray in my beer), a bit on boozy side but not overpowering, a dark chocolate finish that's not bitter but not cloying, and a pleasant bourbon forward experience up front.

I'm getting rave reviews from my hardcore beer nerd friends.

For me, the base beer set. I'll be brewing various pastry versions annually going forward.

 

[spanosspanos]

I think 1.022 is a bit low for a stout, but it is a lower gravity stout. My Porter finished higher than that, but it had an OG of 1.083 (and finished at about 1.028).

I brewed a big stout (1.126 OG) last january. I wanted a nice mouthfeel and and some residual sweetness so I mashed high and had a decent amount of crystal. It finished at 1.034 and it's in no way too sweet. I was targeting closer to 1.040.

I aged it with a charred oak stave soaked in bourbon and added 3 oz of cocoa nibs (untoasted). I just bottle about 2 weeks ago and it's amazing. Certainly not overly sweet but at that ABV, it's a sipper for sure. It's really almost exactly what I want in a stout: nice thick mouthfeel, not overly roasty (I hate stouts that taste like someone emptied an ashtray in my beer), a bit on boozy side but not overpowering, a dark chocolate finish that's not bitter but not cloying, and a pleasant bourbon forward experience up front.

I'm getting rave reviews from my hardcore beer nerd friends.

For me, the base beer set. I'll be brewing various pastry versions annually going forward.

That sounds delicious!! ..and your description sounds right down my alley [emoji482]I've been working my way toward an imperial stout (probably my favorite style of beer), and feel like I'm pretty close to giving such a big malt bill a try. Would you be willing to share your recipe with us? For inspiration at least, or maybe I'll give it a go and we can trade a few bottles!

 

[spanosspanos]

That's actually pretty nice! I like that idea a lot. I always get tunnel vision and always think you have to do everything separately. I was thinking transfer out of the bourbon barrel and into a tertiary fermenter with the toasted nibs and the cherries. But I think I like your idea better. It sounds easier actually. I may change the vodka to be a bourbon, since it'll be in a bourbon barrel anyway, but I think i'm going to use your idea. I feel like I could just add the tincture to the barrel and save me from the 3rd transfer, no?

That idea sounds like it will also really reduce your risk of contamination...eliminating your open air exposure, and since your tincture will be so strong as to essentially be sterile...

 

[spanosspanos]

Hijacks are ok in my book...I got good info on the FG so all is well.

How are you doing the peanut butter flavor? I thought PB powder may work but heard it may be more challenging than I thought. Someone else said PB extract was actually pretty decent.

PM me anytime.

Hijacks here are like a follow-along choose-your-own-adventure! This thread is great, and I hope you both keep us posted on your delicious additions! [emoji482]

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

That sounds delicious!! ..and your description sounds right down my alley [emoji482]I've been working my way toward an imperial stout (probably my favorite style of beer), and feel like I'm pretty close to giving such a big malt bill a try. Would you be willing to share your recipe with us? For inspiration at least, or maybe I'll give it a go and we can trade a few bottles!

Sure, I'll share. :

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
17 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 67.3%
5 lb American - Munich - Light 10L 33 10 19.8%
1.5 lb American - Roasted Barley 33 300 5.9%
1 lb American - Chocolate 29 350 4%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L 34 60 2%
0.25 lb American - Black Malt 28 500 1%
25.25 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Millenium Pellet 15.5 Boil 60 min 46.93
1 oz Millenium Pellet 15.5 Boil 40 min 41.19

My recipe says WYeast 1096, but I thought I used Denny's favorite Yeast with a massive multi-step starter. I also oxygenated with O2 prior to pitch and 12 hours later.

I batch sparge and generated over 9 gallons of pre-boil wort which I then boiled for three hours to get down to the target of 5 gallons to the fermenter. That way I could keep my efficiency up (about 70% brewhouse) and get more maillard reaction.

After 3 weeks in the primary, I racked to a corny keg, purged with CO2, and bulk aged at room temp (basement is usually about 65 degrees) with a spunding valve set to 10 psi for about 6 months. A fellow HBTer hooked me up with a 6x3/4x3/4" charred oak stave. I soaked that in bourbon for a month with cocoa nibs. I then added the it all, including the bourbon, (nibs in a mesh bag) to the keg and aged a month. Then I chilled it, pressurized to 15 psi and left it a couple more months trying to get it to force carb. It's not overcarbed by any stretch...drinks like a bourbon county stout (my target style).

Next batch I may add some bottling yeast, maple syrup and naturally carb in the keg. I don't expect a ton of maple flavor from that, but If I'm going to add sugar, I might as well add something interesting.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Sure, I'll share. :

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
17 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 67.3%
5 lb American - Munich - Light 10L 33 10 19.8%
1.5 lb American - Roasted Barley 33 300 5.9%
1 lb American - Chocolate 29 350 4%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L 34 60 2%
0.25 lb American - Black Malt 28 500 1%
25.25 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Millenium Pellet 15.5 Boil 60 min 46.93
1 oz Millenium Pellet 15.5 Boil 40 min 41.19

My recipe says WYeast 1096, but I thought I used Denny's favorite Yeast with a massive multi-step starter. I also oxygenated with O2 prior to pitch and 12 hours later.

I batch sparge and generated over 9 gallons of pre-boil wort which I then boiled for three hours to get down to the target of 5 gallons to the fermenter. That way I could keep my efficiency up (about 70% brewhouse) and get more maillard reaction.

After 3 weeks in the primary, I racked to a corny keg, purged with CO2, and bulk aged at room temp (basement is usually about 65 degrees) with a spunding valve set to 10 psi for about 6 months. A fellow HBTer hooked me up with a 6x3/4x3/4" charred oak stave. I soaked that in bourbon for a month with cocoa nibs. I then added the it all, including the bourbon, (nibs in a mesh bag) to the keg and aged a month. Then I chilled it, pressurized to 15 psi and left it a couple more months trying to get it to force carb. It's not overcarbed by any stretch...drinks like a bourbon county stout (my target style).

Next batch I may add some bottling yeast, maple syrup and naturally carb in the keg. I don't expect a ton of maple flavor from that, but If I'm going to add sugar, I might as well add something interesting.

While we're on this topic, I've been thinking. The imperial stout I'm planning is targeted to be about 9.5% ABV. Is that high enough to barrel age? Should I be shooting for a more potent beer, like a 13% or something?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

While we're on this topic, I've been thinking. The imperial stout I'm planning is targeted to be about 9.5% ABV. Is that high enough to barrel age? Should I be shooting for a more potent beer, like a 13% or something?

9% will be fine. I aged my porter, which is about 7.3%. It turned out very good, but a bit more oak forward than I intended.