describe "cloying" please

[gator]

this has probably been beaten to death but could someone describe a "cloying" taste? my first batch has been in secondary for several weeks now and i tried some of it last night, along w/ checking a hydrometer reading.

it has this weird taste that i can't figure out....there's almost NO hops taste to it, so it's not very bitter - but i was actually going for a big/hoppy beer when i started. the FG and OG figure the beer to be about 8% ABV which may be part of the issue and it just needs to sit some more.

another thing is it's very VERY hazy still. i forgot to add irish moss but was really hoping it would clear (at least a bit) in secondary, but it hasn't.......i mean, it's really hazy.

i think the taste i'm experiencing is due to the fact i couldn't cool my wort very good (no wort chiller, but gonna make one), but that's just a rank amateur's guess.

the best way i can explain it is that it taste just like the goose island reserve brew i had a couple years ago -- and, i didn't like it then either.

cloying being what i'm thinking i'm tasting, i'd appreciate someone describing that "taste" if that's possible.

disappointed regards, gator

 

[nealf]

Can you give some more info on the recipe? IBU and OG/FG.

Also, any chance you could use some other descriptors for the "weird" flavor? I have never had Goose Island Reserve.

 

[Orangevango]

Ok, cloying means sweet to the point of drowning out subtleties.

 

[craven_morhead]

Cloying just means a beer is out of balance; way too sweet without any bitterness to balance it out. Not sure what your mystery flavor is though.

 

[Revvy]

I always caution brewers to not make premature judgements about your beers UNTIL YOU HAVE FINISHIED THE ENTIRE PROCESS, all the way to bottle conditioned..... afterat least @ 70 three weeks minimum for normal grav beers.

The reason for this is that our beer has a huge journey to go through, it goes through a huge amount of biochemical transformations, and one of the most important is that little bit of fermentation that happens in the bottle.

Just because it taste like something now, when it is green and uncarbed, doesn't mean that it will still taste that way when it is carbed, conditioned and cold.

So don't panic. I personally never stress out about how a beer tastes when I iam tasting it in primary, secondary, or even the bottling bucket. I really don't worry about a taste is a beer until is around 8 weeks in the bottle..

 

[carbon111]

this has probably been beaten to death but could someone describe a "cloying" taste? my first batch has been in secondary for several weeks now and i tried some of it last night, along w/ checking a hydrometer reading.

it has this weird taste that i can't figure out....there's almost NO hops taste to it, so it's not very bitter - but i was actually going for a big/hoppy beer when i started. the FG and OG figure the beer to be about 8% ABV which may be part of the issue and it just needs to sit some more.

another thing is it's very VERY hazy still. i forgot to add irish moss but was really hoping it would clear (at least a bit) in secondary, but it hasn't.......i mean, it's really hazy.

i think the taste i'm experiencing is due to the fact i couldn't cool my wort very good (no wort chiller, but gonna make one), but that's just a rank amateur's guess.

the best way i can explain it is that it taste just like the goose island reserve brew i had a couple years ago -- and, i didn't like it then either.

cloying being what i'm thinking i'm tasting, i'd appreciate someone describing that "taste" if that's possible.

disappointed regards, gator

The recipe and your process would be a big help.
What Revvy says above is very true as well, you won't have a real handle on your beer until it's actually finished.

 

[mklawz]

Ive always gone by the first definition. The way I think of it, cloying = ploy. Kinda like contrived. Want an example? Take one sip of a Leinenkugel Fireside Brown Ale and you will know exactly that Im talking about.

v.tr.
To cause distaste or disgust by supplying with too much of something originally pleasant, especially something rich or sweet; surfeit.
v.intr.
To be too filling, rich, or sweet.

 

[gator]

THANKS folks!!! i always forget the recipe - sorry.

here it is:

1# american caramel 60L
8# alexanders pale liquid

0.5 oz Chinook 13% AA (60 min)
1 oz Centennial 10% AA (20 min)
0.5 oz Cascade 5.5% AA (15 min)
0.5 oz Cascade 5.5% AA (5 min)

Yeast - WLP001 California ale ---> admittedly omitted a starter, didn't understand importance, just tossed it in. it took about 72 hrs to ferment, then fermented HARD for another 72, then dropped to an airlock bubble every 20 seconds for another day or so, then over the next 2-3 it quit all activity. nothing occurred once in secondary, which i don't think is unexpected.

OG predicted = 1.059, but actual = 1.070 (due to heat present from not cooling enough, i'd imagine??)

FG predicted = 1.013 ACTUAL = 1.012

Bitterness = approximately 44 IBU

this was extract w/ steeping grains.

i wish i could put the taste into words but i'm coming short.....closest i could get is very VERY sweet, with NO/ZERO hop backbone to speak of - almost a bourbon/scotch flavor...........best i can do. it's just me, but i'm not a big fan of the bourbon aged type brews.

REVVY, thanks for the advice. I'm not in panic mode yet, but I am a bit concerned on a couple of fronts:

1) this has sat in primary for 4 weeks and secondary a good/solid 3. i was hoping by this time the hops would have become apparent. not sure if i need to keep it in secondary (morebeer bucket) longer or go to bottling to age further.

2) when i transferred to secondary, it was very VERY cloudy - no biggie - but i was hoping it would clear a bit.....it hasn't. it's "mirky" for lack of better wording.

admittedly, i hadn't thought of the fermentation in the bottle, so that may help a bit.

does this help any?

any more thougths?

thanks, gator

 

[Droot]

Carb makes it more bitter, so does being cooler than fermenation temp. There are two.

OG is not from cooling or lack of. 8 lbs of Liquid Male extract should be about an OG of 1.070.

OG is higher than you expected. This makes your hop schedule a little low for balance.


It will be good in the end, you are not there yet.

David

 

[carbon111]

If you used pellets, your brew should be pretty well balanced at about 39 IBUs - even if you used leaf hops you should still have around 35 IBUs. (if it's a 5 gal batch) Both are respectable numbers and you should be tasting some pronounced hoppiness.

Based on the ingredients, your OG should have been about 1.063. What temp did you take the OG at?

If you're at 1.012, things look good.

Once it's bottle-conditioned for 3 weeks, let us know how it tastes...

 

[borracho_brewer]

Bottle it and wait another month. My last porter was way too sweet and sugary feeling up until about 5 or 6 weeks in bottle. Before carbing it was gross and after a couple of weeks in bottle it was only slightly bettter. Several months later it's really fantastic (at least compared to how it was).

Sorry to see I'm on my last sixer or so

Bottle + Time = all the fix you need, more often then not it seems.

 

[gator]

THANKS EVERYONE!

it's no small thing that simply waiting may pull this all together. i figure as my skill improves, so will my beer, and i appreciate ya'll taking the time!

gator

 

[samc]

Cloying is too sweet or rich. My first IPA from the LHBS recipe was just that way. It never got better. Just tossed the last few bottles that were 10 months old. I find in my own experience with mostly IPA & IIPA's they taste great all during the process from mashing to kegging and beyond. I respectfully disagree with most others on this subject. In my opinion beers mellow over time and off flavors will lessen or disappear allowing you to taste the good parts, but it just does not get better.

 

[hopvine]

Add gelatin to get rid of the haze. You can find detailed instructions of exactly what to use, how much, and how to prepare it by searching for "gelatin" on these forums.