degassing rig

[SteveHoward]

I liked the idea of using the wine savers to create negative pressure over the wine for degassing much more than I liked the idea of stirring until my arms were tired. I tried several ideas that sounded so simple to make it work (drilling the bung, etc.) None of those worked quite as well or as easily as I had hoped. Then ... I had a sudden epiphany that made it all work quite simply. I thought I'd post it for critique, or for the benefit of anyone else who is looking for a way to make it work:

 

[DoctorCAD]

Wow...that's going to take a while!!!

Go to Wally Mart and get a Food Saver. put the vacuum port on the hole in the bung. Every 15 minutes or so, shake the carboy. let it run an hour on two different days.

Or buy a WineGasGetter, it runs off an air compressor.

Why fight it, tool make things easy!

 

[huesmann]

Plus those airlocks are kind of fragile...you'd have to be real careful about pumping the wine saver.

 

[Yooper]

I've seen guys use Mity vacs- you know those tools for bleeding the breaks.

I use a wine whip and a drill, as I only degas kit wines and 6 gallons at a time! With the wine whip, it takes about 5 minutes.

 

[SteveHoward]

Now see, this is why I come here, and why I post here.

I never thought about a food saver - I'll have to look at that. I've been banished from the kitchen for 26+ years now, so I don't know about kitchen tools.

I've read about the wine whip, and that's what the person at the LHBS recommended. More than the work, it was the idea of something else being put into the wine that gave me the hangup. I realize it's what is done probably most often, but that was my hangup, and being able to explain it doesn't remove it as a hangup.

The idea I had started with what I read in "Strong Waters," and subsequently saw as a video on youtube. With my smallest batch, I did that by putting the wine into the bottles first, and using the wine saver to degass. It took a few days of pumping it out when I walked past. I figured the ratio of wine to headspace in the carboy was comparable to the bottles. But for the carboy, the drilling out of the bung so that the winesaver stopper would seal wasn't as easy as it sounded when reading in Strong Waters. That's what brought me to where I am.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Is your wine whip the one in your old avatar?

I've seen guys use Mity vacs- you know those tools for bleeding the breaks.

I use a wine whip and a drill, as I only degas kit wines and 6 gallons at a time! With the wine whip, it takes about 5 minutes.

 

[SteveHoward]

This actually wasn't difficult. I put the rig in the carboy, then, about 3 times in the morning while I was getting ready for work, I'd pump it out. Then I'd do the same thing maybe 3 - 4 times after I got home from work, but before I went to bed. After 4 days, it was quite flat. It might have been flat before 4 days, but that's how long I kept it up before trying it.

The airlock turns out to not be as fragile as you'd think. I'd usually give it about 100 pumps each time I pumped it out, and I'd notice I wasn't exactly gentle, just because I couldn't really be.

I'm sure the foodsaver is easier, and you can probably get it done in one sitting, but this was cheap, and I didn't mind waiting a few days before bottling.

 

[Insomniac]

That's exactly what I do Agreed that the airlocks arent as fragile as you might think, and are cheap enough to buy replacements if needed. I've been doing similar - 4 or 5 pumping sessions a day over a weak, the first one takes 50 to get it all out, later ones only another 15 - 20 so it's not too much effort.

One day I might go for a compressor based solution but the vacuuvin works well enough and you can then use it on bottles you've opened.

 

[daugenet]

Or buy a WineGasGetter, it runs off an air compressor.

Please dont buy a gasgetter. you can make your own for WAY cheaper. (~$20)

I will admit that mine is not as pretty but has the exact same function. The first item has to be ordered. Everything else may be found at lowes Here is the parts list.

http://www.sourcingmap.com/6mm-6mm-tube-type-plastic-pneumatic-vacuum-ejector-generator-p-116195.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&u tm_campaign=usfroogle

Plumbing section
1/4" OD polyethylene tubing (goes in bung)
3/8" OD polyethylene tubing (1/8' ID)
1/8" bard 1/4" MIP (should be brass)
3/8" to 1/4" plastic adapter (tubing reducer)
smallest stainless worm gear clamp (mine was 99 cents i believe)

Tool World
air compressor connector (I got the wrong one the first go round so check what your compressor requires)

The order of how the parts are connected goes like this;

bung, 1/4", reducer, 3/8", vacuum ejector, 3/8", barb(clamp on it), air compressor piece.

The tubing doesnt have to be as long as it is (i have 12ft total) but I have been lazy and not cut it to length just yet.

 

[feffer]

daugenet, thx for the plans. I'm a little unclear about how it works -- please humor me. An air compressor w/tank will "blow out" a stream of air, but degassing requires a vacuum. Does that mean the part you linked to somehow uses the compressor air stream to create the vacuum? Or maybe I've got this all wrong.

 

[daugenet]

daugenet, thx for the plans. I'm a little unclear about how it works -- please humor me. An air compressor w/tank will "blow out" a stream of air, but degassing requires a vacuum. Does that mean the part you linked to somehow uses the compressor air stream to create the vacuum? Or maybe I've got this all wrong.

The image is a slightly different configuration but it gives you the same idea.

Helpful reading

You are correct. What happens is as the compressed air is pushed through the device it will create a vacuum in the carboy. It is the same idea as an old water bed draining method.

http://www.waterbedland.com/assembly-fill-draining

I hope this helps!

 

[DoctorCAD]

Well, my winegasgetter only cost $30, so no big deal.

Nice to know where to get a replacement venturi.

 

[daugenet]

Well, my winegasgetter only cost $30, so no big deal.

Nice to know where to get a replacement venturi.

interesting. some other guy told me he paid a lot more. for 30 i might not have hassled with it.

 

[DoctorCAD]

interesting. some other guy told me he paid a lot more. for 30 i might not have hassled with it.

I used to compete with the inventor at local wine competitions, really nice guy and could make a heck of a wine.

I bought a single outlet version, made specifically for only degassing one carboy at a time. His big business is selling manifold versions that can degass 5, 10 or more carboys. Those are the expensive versions

 

[feffer]

After going to the Gas Getter site it looks like the prices are considerably higher than $30 now even for the basic model.

 

[DoctorCAD]

After going to the Gas Getter site it looks like the prices are considerably higher than $30 now even for the basic model.

Times must be tough!!

 

[feffer]

@daugenet -- I have a tank-less air compressor. It is heavy duty and will generate enough air pressure to fill car tires etc quickly. Should that work, or do I need a compressor with a tank?

 

[RedOctober]

Aspirator pump.

 

[feffer]

@Red October: I assume that is a vacuum pump at the end of a racking operation? I picked up an old used vacuum pump from the discount pile at my LHBS for a few dollars. It is originally rated at 3 gal/min. I think I could probably rack my wine with it, but the suction doesn't seem to be very strong -- maybe the unit is defective -- hence the huge discount. I tried degassing with it today and it only drew a few small bubbles from a 1 gal glass jug of wine that should have gas in it.

I'd prefer not buying a new vacuum pump for $100 or more. I can rack my few carboys with a siphon as before, but I'd really like to find an economical way to degas by establishing a vacuum like the Gas Getter does. That is why I'm interested in daugenet's rig. I only need to know whether my tank-less air compressor will work.

thx,
feffer

 

[RedOctober]

@Red October: I assume that is a vacuum pump at the end of a racking operation? I picked up an old used vacuum pump from the discount pile at my LHBS for a few dollars. It is originally rated at 3 gal/min. I think I could probably rack my wine with it, but the suction doesn't seem to be very strong -- maybe the unit is defective -- hence the huge discount. I tried degassing with it today and it only drew a few small bubbles from a 1 gal glass jug of wine that should have gas in it.

I'd prefer not buying a new vacuum pump for $100 or more. I can rack my few carboys with a siphon as before, but I'd really like to find an economical way to degas by establishing a vacuum like the Gas Getter does. That is why I'm interested in daugenet's rig. I only need to know whether my tank-less air compressor will work.

thx,
feffer

That is an aspirator pump from hospital supply store, I have one similar to the one in the photo.

And yes, it was a bit over 100 bucks so out of line with your budget, but you should realize that it does make life a bit easier with racking and degassing, I even use it to bottle.

Set the rig up as illustrated, turn vacuum up to 20 and it will degas as it racks, after about 15-20 minutes you should be properly flat.

However, the "whip" does the same thing in 5 mins (the degassing anyway) so if your on a budget the drill/whip combo is the way to go.

Finally, if you're a patient person, you can leave it to bulk age at room temp and after a long while it will flatten out.

 

[cannew]

I was looking for ways to degas and thought of the Cordless Foodsaver. Plan to place the rubber wine plug on a carboy cap and use the foodsaver to create the vacuum to degas.

I saw on youtube where a guy connected an airlock to a regular vacuum cleaner and used it to degas. Haven't tried it but has anyone else?

 

[RedOctober]

I was looking for ways to degas and thought of the Cordless Foodsaver. Plan to place the rubber wine plug on a carboy cap and use the foodsaver to create the vacuum to degas.

I saw on youtube where a guy connected an airlock to a regular vacuum cleaner and used it to degas. Haven't tried it but has anyone else?

I believe using a foodsaver to degas would most likely break the foodsaver.

This would result in and angry wife, as well as carbonated wine.

Just my 2cents I could be wrong.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Used my Foodsaver until I got the Winegasgetter.

It still works. I don't know why you would think it would break?? Pulling a vacuum is pulling a vacuum, either in a bag or a bottle.

 

[BryanThompson]

I hooked my foodsaver up for the first time last night. When they hit a certain vacuum level they shut off.

 

[cannew]

Bryan:

Did it pull up the gas?

 

[DoctorCAD]

I hooked my foodsaver up for the first time last night. When they hit a certain vacuum level they shut off.

Thats perfect. Leave it hooked up like that and do a small shake of the carboy. Be careful so that you don't get any foam or liquid into the foodsaver. I put a hockey puck under the carboy and swirl it on that. Eventually (mine took around 10 to 15 minutes) the gas escaping from the wine will replace the vacuum and you can restart the foodsaver. I kept this up for 8 or 10 attempts and do that for 3 days. Flat as milk after that!

The Winegasgetter is a constant vacuum source, so it is always applying the vacuum to the carboy, even when the gas escapes. It takes much less time, but I still do it on 2 different days to be sure.

 

[BryanThompson]

It worked perfectly. I couldn't believe how fast the CO2 was coming out of solution. I need to start using it on still fermenting must to help the fermentation along.

 

[DoctorCAD]

It worked perfectly. I couldn't believe how fast the CO2 was coming out of solution. I need to start using it on still fermenting must to help the fermentation along.

Nope, don't do that.

 

[daugenet]

@daugenet -- I have a tank-less air compressor. It is heavy duty and will generate enough air pressure to fill car tires etc quickly. Should that work, or do I need a compressor with a tank?

Sorry for the delay! Doing testing at work has put me a little behind.

I am going to guess that the little compressor will not be enough to do the job. It not be able to do enough scfm (standard cubic feet per min) to generate the vacuum.

I used my food saver as other have and it worked ok though now it sounds different when operating it. I am not sure if I would recommend doing it long term.

 

[RedOctober]

I used my food saver as other have and it worked ok though now it sounds different when operating it. I am not sure if I would recommend doing it long term.

When I looked into the foodsaver option, I read similar stories. That's why I went in a different direction.

I still believe the a aspirator is the way to go, you can find them new for a little more than a foodsaver, you can rack, bottle and degas with it and it will last forever.

I can't see the foodsaver as a viable long term solution.