Definitive answer to safety of #5 pp buckets?

[HoboBrewing]

I see tons of info on the safety of 1 and 2, but nothing about fermenting in a # 5. I asked this over in the wine forums and they didn't know either.
QUESTION 1:
Okay I know I am really beating the **** out of a dead horse here, but I just went to acme and picked up some 5 gallon food storage buckets. On the bottom in the recycling symbol it says 5 and underneath that is PP. From what some people say only 1 and 2 are safe, but on different forums it's all over the place. Just wanted to make sure they are safe to ferment in...

If so I just saved myself a lot of money .
Question 2:
Also Can I use a bucket for secondary? Since I have a six gallon carboy I was going to use that as primary and the 5 gallon for secondary. It will only be in secondary for about a day (while I am adding campden tablets). Also do I need to buy some kind of special lid (they came with lids, but this obviously isn't airlock ready) or just use a towel? Thanks.

 

[zachattack]

Like anything else, polypropylene can be food safe but it has to be rated as such. Depending what additives, dyes, etc. they add and how it was processed, it has the potential to be food safe. In general it's a great plastic, Gladware and other food storage containers are PP. If your bucket is rated as food grade, go for it. If not, you're probably still OK but that's your decision and it's certainly not definitive.

I'd say a bucket is a poor secondary, but that's up to you. It sounds like you aren't using it like a "traditional" secondary, so you could probably ignore my advice. You usually want to minimize oxygen exposure in secondary so you want a well-sealed (expect the airlock) vessel with limited headspace. Buckets often have tons of headspace, don't seal well, and will also let oxygen permeate over time.

Can I ask why you transfer just to add campden? I'm unfamiliar with winemaking.

 

[rodwha]

Use a 1/2" drill bit and make the hole for the airlock and buy a rubber grommet for it.

 

[HoboBrewing]

Like anything else, polypropylene can be food safe but it has to be rated as such. Depending what additives, dyes, etc. they add and how it was processed, it has the potential to be food safe. In general it's a great plastic, Gladware and other food storage containers are PP. If your bucket is rated as food grade, go for it. If not, you're probably still OK but that's your decision and it's certainly not definitive.

I'd say a bucket is a poor secondary, but that's up to you. It sounds like you aren't using it like a "traditional" secondary, so you could probably ignore my advice. You usually want to minimize oxygen exposure in secondary so you want a well-sealed (expect the airlock) vessel with limited headspace. Buckets often have tons of headspace, don't seal well, and will also let oxygen permeate over time.

Can I ask why you transfer just to add campden? I'm unfamiliar with winemaking.

Not exactly sure. this will be my first batch. Here is the recipe and the guy to ask : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-hard-cider-292770/

Thanks for your advice. I am pretty sure they stored frosting in it, but I am not sure if it had a layer of plastic between the bucket and the icing. I assume if there was no plastic layer around the icing and it just sat in the bucket that could make it food grade.

Thanks, I guess I will just go for it

 

[HoboBrewing]

Use a 1/2" drill bit and make the hole for the airlock and buy a rubber grommet for it.

Thanks, I might do this. On the other hand so many people swear by just using a towel... Towel seems easier, but I am sure there are many advantages to using a regular air lock.

 

[rodwha]

I just bought a couple of buckets and lids...worked well and for a very small fee! I'm pleased...a bucket for each week
A lid with an airlock has no chance of falling off or moving. I'd feel better with a lid. And I get mesmerized by the bubbling in the airlock!

 

[HoboBrewing]

I just bought a couple of buckets and lids...worked well and for a very small fee! I'm pleased...a bucket for each week
A lid with an airlock has no chance of falling off or moving. I'd feel better with a lid. And I get mesmerized by the bulling in the airlock!

Yah buckets are nice and cheap . I suppose I am going to use them hopefully they don't leech poisons :cross:.

 

[helibrewer]

I see tons of info on the safety of 1 and 2, but nothing about fermenting in a # 5. I asked this over in the wine forums and they didn't know either.
QUESTION 1:
Okay I know I am really beating the **** out of a dead horse here, but I just went to acme and picked up some 5 gallon food storage buckets. On the bottom in the recycling symbol it says 5 and underneath that is PP. From what some people say only 1 and 2 are safe, but on different forums it's all over the place. Just wanted to make sure they are safe to ferment in...

If so I just saved myself a lot of money .
Question 2:
Also Can I use a bucket for secondary? Since I have a six gallon carboy I was going to use that as primary and the 5 gallon for secondary. It will only be in secondary for about a day (while I am adding campden tablets). Also do I need to buy some kind of special lid (they came with lids, but this obviously isn't airlock ready) or just use a towel? Thanks.

See this: http://www.earthodyssey.com/symbols.html
And
this: http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-Food-Grade-Buckets

I think you are perfectly fine.

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

I have a friend who is a chemistry professor at a university with a good program. His expertise is in physical chemistry, organic chemistry, and electrical engineering. His specific responsibilities are the operation and maintenance of the NMR lab where he uses huge supercooled electromagnets to determine the composition of chemical samples. He also has access to scanning electron microscopes and the like, and has a background as an EPA site inspector and a hazardous waste consultant.

He tells me that for 99.99% of plastics, the food-grade vs. industrial-grade nomenclature refers strictly to how much paperwork has been done.

 

[geeyoupee]

I tried finding food grade buckets at supermarkets with no luck. Then I found out a classmate worked at a ice cream shop. He gave me 4 buckets so far. He says that they throw them away all the time. I would look for an ice cream shop that makes their own ice cream.

 

[Peppers16]

Use a 1/2" drill bit and make the hole for the airlock and buy a rubber grommet for it.

I'll just add that with some buckets the lid lets out gas under enough pressure anyway. My beginner's bucket has no airlock, I guess like 'Mr Beer' sets. It just bulges with all the gas and very gradually lets CO2 out from some slightly thinner bits of rim. I've seen some people complaining that with buckets their air-locks aren't bubbling and I suspect this is the reason.
Bottom line: Airlocks aren't 'always' useful.

 

[HoboBrewing]

I'll just add that with some buckets the lid lets out gas under enough pressure anyway. My beginner's bucket has no airlock, I guess like 'Mr Beer' sets. It just bulges with all the gas and very gradually lets CO2 out from some slightly thinner bits of rim. I've seen some people complaining that with buckets their air-locks aren't bubbling and I suspect this is the reason.
Bottom line: Airlocks aren't 'always' useful.

So Can I just use one of the lids that came with my buckets instead of a towel? They seem like good lids (they have a rubber seal). Thanks for all of your advice. Looks like I won't be poisoning myself with these buckets

 

[Peppers16]

So Can I just use one of the lids that came with my buckets instead of a towel? They seem like good lids (they have a rubber seal).

If it's got a rubber gasket I'd maybe leave a bit little of rim 'unclipped' just in case: You don't want it blowing-off. When the fermentation gets going you could try 'sealing' and press down a bit and see if gas seems able to escape. But either way I'd say a lid beats a towl: Even without a perfect seal the flow of CO2 keeps microbes out.

p.s. I should add that the 'Young's' fermentation buckets they sell here in the UK are 5PP. And my other bucket is 5PP AND marked with the UK 'food-grade' symbol so I doubt you'll be poisoning yourself ;-)

 

[HoboBrewing]

If it's got a rubber gasket I'd maybe leave a bit little of rim 'unclipped' just in case: You don't want it blowing-off. When the fermentation gets going you could try 'sealing' and press down a bit and see if gas seems able to escape. But either way I'd say a lid beats a towl: Even without a perfect seal the flow of CO2 keeps microbes out.

p.s. I should add that the 'Young's' fermentation buckets they sell here in the UK are 5PP. And my other bucket is 5PP AND marked with the UK 'food-grade' symbol so I doubt you'll be poisoning yourself ;-)

Thanks for the information. This is very comforting

 

[jbaysurfer]

Towel seems inferior to me for many reasons. The likelihood that some foreign fungus spore catches onto the knapp of the towel then drops off into your wine/beer for one.

The fact that a towel in no way shape of form prevents O2 from entering your bucket.

So oxidation and sanitation are the two primary reasons I'd recommend a bucket lid over a towel. Also, airlocks are dirt cheap, the grommet is dirt cheap, and all you need is a drill and half inch bit to make a properly airlocked system (I assume your buckets will hold gas pretty well if they have a rubber gasket on the lid) eliminating many of these risks.