Deep Six Brewing System - v2.0

[DeathBrewer]

perhaps i missed it somewhere, but how are you mixing this thing? i'm assuming you're heating through recirculation and/or flame? don't you need some mixing to keep the heat consistent throughout the mash?

 

[John Beere]

I can answer that. The pump on the front of the frame under the touchscreen recirculates the mash. It runs for the entire mash cycle. Here is a photo of the top of my HLT/ HEX.

That is a 5500w 220v heating element sticking up through the middle. You can also see the HERMs coil made out of about 40 ft of copper. So I heat the HLT / HEX and the mash is heated indirectly through the HERMs coil...

 

[John Beere]

And here is a photo of the stirrer for the HLT / HEX to make certain there are no hotspots.

 

[beerthirty]

So JB, since you recirc your wort constantly, have you ever had a problem with a stuck mash? Ever made hi wheat or hi grav with the herms?

 

[bakins]

I've been toying with the idea of doing something similar using an Arduino Arduino - HomePage

Someone already wrote a PID function for it and can get some temp probes and relays easily as well. Total cost, using an old laptop and my current electric setup, would be about $200. It would probably take me about 40-100 man hours to do it, that's the biggest reason I haven't done it*.

Looks like the LabJack stuff has very limited Linux support

What touch screen you using?

Yours looks 1000 times better than anything I'd do. :rockin:

*I write C code on Unix for a living...

 

[John Beere]

So JB, since you recirc your wort constantly, have you ever had a problem with a stuck mash? Ever made hi wheat or hi grav with the herms?

My tastes may change in time, but I don't do a lot of wheat. I think the highest gravity beer I've made recently had an OG of around 1.068. So far I've never had any issues with it clogging up. I'm sure a lot is due to my 3-roller mill.

I run the recirculation pump for the entire mash at 100%. I've heard / read the arguments against recirculating too fast - grain bed compaction, etc - but I have never had those issues as well and average right at 80% efficiency...

 

[John Beere]

I've been toying with the idea of doing something similar using an Arduino Arduino - HomePage

Someone already wrote a PID function for it and can get some temp probes and relays easily as well. Total cost, using an old laptop and my current electric setup, would be about $200. It would probably take me about 40-100 man hours to do it, that's the biggest reason I haven't done it*.

Looks like the LabJack stuff has very limited Linux support

What touch screen you using?

Yours looks 1000 times better than anything I'd do. :rockin:

*I write C code on Unix for a living...

I want to pick up the Arduino, but I didn't feel it was suited for this project.

The touchscreen is a 12" industrial model made by Cyber Research. It has some contrast issues but I could really care less. I picked it up new old stock off eBay for dirt cheap - really lucked out on that.

My original idea was to run this from my UMPC but I was starting to compromise the interface to get it to all fit. Here is an early photo of it running in debug mode from the UMPC.

 

[John Beere]

Well, here is all I got done today. I wanted some decent compact speakers for the alarms but I damn sure didn't want to have to plug them in - so I settled for these off Amazon: Amazon.com: Genius SP-i200U USB Portable Digital Speakers for notebooks- Black: Electronics

It is USB powered and has its own soundcard built in - so all that plugs in is the USB cable. It sound pretty good for the size and is definitely loud enough to be heard when the alarms sound. I mounted it above the PC and below the breakout box.

 

[WBC]

Well you have a good start there. I used to work with automated production lines and you are almost state of the art. We has color touch screens and graphic pictures on the screen of processes in action. I'm sure you will get the bugs worked out and have a nice expensive new toy. I thought about doing the same thing but can't follow through because I make so many kinds of beer that I would constantly be writing programs for every little change. Is your program going to have choices on screen for every item to be controlled or do you have to rewrite part or most control changes into the program itself at a keyboard? Just curious.

 

[John Beere]

WBC, good question - I haven't covered it in this thread. Each "brew" has its own config file that instructs the application on the specific instructions for that recipe. Here is a sample config file as it stands now.

'== Brew Title =============================================
Georgia Pale Ale
'== Mash Schedule (Yes/No, Temp, Time) =====================
Y 104 20            'Acid Rest
Y 126 20            'Protein Rest
N 140 0             'Intermediate Rest
Y 152 60            'Saccharification Rest
Y 170 30            'Mash-out Rest
Y 178 30            'Sparge
'== Boil Time (in minutes) =================================
75
'== Boil Additions (in minutes) ============================
60,15,5

 

[WBC]

Well that's really simple. Will each one of these programs be available via the touch screen by name? Are you programing this yourself?

 

[BrianP]

That is so bad-ass.

Wow.

 

[John Beere]

Well that's really simple. Will each one of these programs be available via the touch screen by name? Are you programing this yourself?

Yes, I am the programmer. It is actually a very refreshing project compared to the software I write for work...

Right now the configs are loaded through a standard windows dialog but that isn't good enough for the final product. I am working on creating an interface to load the configs that is more touchscreen friendly. Here is a screenshot - sorry, kinda big... it is 1:1 ratio. Notice that the only letters that are lit up are the ones with configs that match. Once the letter is selected, a list of all configs that match are returned to be selected... still working on that part.

 

[WBC]

Well I can see you are having fun and can make beer too. What a combination. I would eventually like to work with steam as it is good for cleaning and sterilizing too. I have a conical fermenter and that would fit right into the plan. Steam is a quick energy source as well for step mashing. Creating a safe automated steam source that is not to expensive would be a good challenge. Cleaning and sterilizing tubing and hi temp hoses just before wort transfer would be a breeze using steam. I am using stainless quick disconnects on all my vessels so moving lines is quick.

 

[scinerd3000]

what did you code this in and how long did it take you. I seriously just drooled on myself

 

[Brewpastor]

All I can say is remember Hal in 2001: a Space Odyssey.

You are going to come home one day and that thing is going to be cooking up a batch of Light Lager all on its own. You will be locked out and that screen will say something like "Trust me, this is for your own good..." I

tell you, it is evil and you should send it to me ASAP.

 

[Chriso]

HAHAHAHAHA EXCELLENT, BP!

Watch, It'll start insisting that you like wheat beer!

 

[bakins]

I want to pick up the Arduino, but I didn't feel it was suited for this project.

Why? (not being a jerk, asking as an engineer.) I'm reading some on the LabJack stuff, so maybe it is "better" suited. I just prefer to work in a unix-like environment. I know the Arduino is much more "do-it-yourself" than the labjack stuff.

To be honest, it will be a while before I get to even start on mine. Plus, I rarely do step mashes and my cooler only looses about 1 degree per hour.

A big thumbs up from a systems software guy.

 

[John Beere]

Why? (not being a jerk, asking as an engineer.) I'm reading some on the LabJack stuff, so maybe it is "better" suited. I just prefer to work in a unix-like environment. I know the Arduino is much more "do-it-yourself" than the labjack stuff.

To be honest, it will be a while before I get to even start on mine. Plus, I rarely do step mashes and my cooler only looses about 1 degree per hour.

A big thumbs up from a systems software guy.

Listen up Jerk - because I said so, that's why!

Actually, I want one to mess around with myself and might find that it could have worked, but I wanted something that interfaced directly with the PC, not running from the device itself - which is how I understand the Arduino works.

Bigger than that though is the flexibility that the LabJack provides in reading a multitude of devices and probes and the accuracy (12-bit resolution on the analog inputs) it provides. Right now, I am toggling six solid state relays, reading two temperature probes, and monitoring a float switch. And I can still hook up ten more devices to this single device.

 

[John Beere]

All I can say is remember Hal in 2001: a Space Odyssey.

You are going to come home one day and that thing is going to be cooking up a batch of Light Lager all on its own. You will be locked out and that screen will say something like "Trust me, this is for your own good..." I

tell you, it is evil and you should send it to me ASAP.

I don't know about shipping it to you, but I will invite you over to bless it for me...

 

[Clayton]

Yes, I am the programmer. It is actually a very refreshing project compared to the software I write for work...

Right now the configs are loaded through a standard windows dialog but that isn't good enough for the final product. I am working on creating an interface to load the configs that is more touchscreen friendly. Here is a screenshot - sorry, kinda big... it is 1:1 ratio. Notice that the only letters that are lit up are the ones with configs that match. Once the letter is selected, a list of all configs that match are returned to be selected... still working on that part.

QUOTE]


you know just as a thought
the onboard computer has ethernet it would be very sweet if
you could make-import your Recipes in BeerSmith.
if Beer Smith had an added function to it for the JBBS
then you open your Recipe send it to the jbbs via usb thumbdrive or ethernet

mabe it could even provide added logging and what not
if you connect via your computer the need for screens and other interface stuff
could be olimnated ,

 

[John Beere]

I have been using ProMash for some time but recently downloaded the trial of BeerSmith and like it a lot. I have briefly looked into the XML output from Beersmith, and I think most all of the info could be gleamed from it. I will definitely explore this once I get the other bugs worked out.

 

[Brewpastor]

How are you monitoring flow or did I miss that in all the text?

 

[John Beere]

Right now I can't find a reasonably priced flowmeter, nor have I researched any type valve that could be precisely controlled - but both seem completely doable.

I have never had issue with grain bed compaction or anything of the like, so I recirculate during the entire mash at 100% flow.

 

[kladue]

Here is the same model flowmeter that I use Malema Sensors M10000 Paddlewheel 3/8" Ports Flowmeter - eBay (item 190052469834 end time Oct-06-08 08:57:12 PDT)
As to valves the Belimo ball valves with 0-10 proportional actuator works well also.

 

[Chriso]

if you connect via your computer the need for screens and other interface stuff could be olimnated ,

This isn't exactly the same as what you were describing... as you will still need to manually copy over the configuration file... BUT. As long as the "brewing PC" is running Windows XP Professional (or the right version of Vista but I don't know which versions support it), it has a Remote Desktop feature built-in.

I use this frequently from other PCs and from my MacBook (there's a Mac client available) to remote in to my main desktop.

Once you remote in, you control that computer as if you were sitting at it. So then, if you have a network drive mapped on your Brewing PC that connects to another computer on your network with your copy of BeerSmith on it, you can simply drag-n-drop the exported config file from the "server" to the Brewing PC. Then, you can open JBBS (still remotely), load the config file, and start the process running.

I've done this successfully over wireless, no ethernet cable required.

Cheers!

 

[John Beere]

Here is the same model flowmeter that I use

Malema Sensors M10000 Paddlewheel 3/8" Ports Flowmeter - eBay (item 190052469834 end time Oct-06-08 08:57:12 PDT)
As to valves the Belimo ball valves with 0-10 proportional actuator works well also.

Thanks for info. This is definitely something I want to explore but just haven't had time as of yet...

 

[bakins]

Bigger than that though is the flexibility that the LabJack provides in reading a multitude of devices and probes and the accuracy (12-bit resolution on the analog inputs) it provides. Right now, I am toggling six solid state relays, reading two temperature probes, and monitoring a float switch. And I can still hook up ten more devices to this single device.

Okay, I will definitely dig deeper into the labJack stuff. Their website is kinda "blah" but I found some forums that may be of mor ehelp.

Thanks.

 

[slnies]

You might find this interesting as well, You my friend are creating a smarter PLC. In fact, you could install a simple PLC along with your touch screen and program, The PLC could take care of all of the automation and even take all of the sensor readings, and their analog inputs already come in 16 bit. I', not sure I said that right, but you get the picture. The interesting part is the PLC can take a lot more abuse than the average computer, kind of, making your system Brewer proof, well mostly. LOL You can still retain the option of hooking the big bad computer to the system at any time, because you can expand a PLC with ethernet and network it as well. This is popular on industrial robots. Anyway, just more ideas. And I already understand, you have a limited amount of time. But hey, it is what it is. I look forward to seeing the final product. S.

 

[Clayton]

This isn't exactly the same as what you were describing... as you will still need to manually copy over the configuration file... BUT. As long as the "brewing PC" is running Windows XP Professional (or the right version of Vista but I don't know which versions support it), it has a Remote Desktop feature built-in.

I use this frequently from other PCs and from my MacBook (there's a Mac client available) to remote in to my main desktop.

Once you remote in, you control that computer as if you were sitting at it. So then, if you have a network drive mapped on your Brewing PC that connects to another computer on your network with your copy of BeerSmith on it, you can simply drag-n-drop the exported config file from the "server" to the Brewing PC. Then, you can open JBBS (still remotely), load the config file, and start the process running.

I've done this successfully over wireless, no ethernet cable required.

Cheers!

ya but that adds 150$ for no reson (cost of xp),, the onboard computer can run a free os and the server app running on the JBBS can just talk to a modifide ver of beer smith

as for wireless ver wire there is no deffrence its all tcp-ip