decoction vs. clean water mashout

[krausenmustache]

I have limited MLT space and want to maximize my water:grain ratio which means a mash with no space for mashout water. I haven't done a mashout yet, but I would like to try it for my next batch to improve efficiency. Is there any reason I shouldn't vorlauf, drain ~4qt into a small pot, bring up to calculated temp for the remaining grain/wort to hit 168, add it back to the MLT and call it a mashout?

 

[Malticulous]

Why vorlauf? Pull a decotion from the top. Do it at 45min and it will not take any more time than an infusion mash-out. Using my five gallon MLT I have to do that most of the time.

 

[flyangler18]

Are you batch sparging or fly sparging?

If you are batch sparging, it is not necessary to perform a separate mashout. Rather, sparge at a temperature high enough (usually 180-185°) to raise your grain bed to the 168° mashout temperature.

 

[Malticulous]

I batch sparge and do a mash out. I think it still does improve efficiency (even more so because I use a thin mash.) A mash out is never necessary.

 

[flyangler18]

I batch sparge and do a mash out. I think it still does improve efficiency. A mash out is never necessary.

I think there are better ways to improve efficiency, but that's just me. Of course, if it works for you, brew on!

 

[krausenmustache]

Are you batch sparging or fly sparging?

If you are batch sparging, it is not necessary to perform a separate mashout. Rather, sparge at a temperature high enough (usually 180-185°) to raise your grain bed to the 168° mashout temperature.

fly sparging

 

[krausenmustache]

I think there are better ways to improve efficiency, but that's just me. Of course, if it works for you, brew on!

it makes sense from a chemistry standpoint that it would improve eff while fly sparging. If the grain bed is hotter for a longer period of time, solubility of water is higher for a longer period of time.

 

[flyangler18]

it makes sense from a chemistry standpoint that it would improve eff while fly sparging. If the grain bed is hotter for a longer period of time, solubility of water is higher for a longer period of time.

Lautering efficiency, yes. But as I understand it, the purpose of a mashout is to stop conversion once you've reached the wort profile you want.

 

[Malticulous]

Sorry Palmer, conversion does not stop at 168, 180 is more like it. 180 is too hot to sparge. It's more about solubility of the sugary goodness and flow of the wort through the grain bed. I tend to mash-out lower than 168 and my efficiency speaks for it's self.

 

[mkade]

Sorry Palmer, conversion does not stop at 168, 180 is more like it. 180 is too hot to sparge. It's more about solubility of the sugary goodness and flow of the wort through the grain bed. I tend to mash-out lower than 168 and my efficiency speaks for it's self.

Yes, but 168 will stop beta-amylase activity, which is really what you're worried about. You don't want to make your mash more fermentable while you're sparging.

 

[flyangler18]

Sorry Palmer, conversion does not stop at 168, 180 is more like it. 180 is too hot to sparge. It's more about solubility of the sugary goodness and flow of the wort through the grain bed. I tend to mash-out lower than 168 and my efficiency speaks for it's self.

I'm not disputing the increased solubility at all, but sparge water of 180-185° is not hot in and of itself. I'd only consider it to be too hot if it raises the grainbed to temps over 170° with the potential for astrigency issues due to tannin extraction. This is well-documented in the literature. (See Noonan, New Brewing Lager Beer, pg. 145, 151)

Just enjoying a good discussion, so let's be civil, shall we?

 

[Malticulous]

I use 180 degree sparge watter and the sparge temp is close to 168. I'm talking about the temp in the MLT not whatever may have made it get to that temp. Sorry, I thought that was just understood. Next time I should try to make myself more clear.

 

[flyangler18]

I use 180 degree sparge watter and the sparge temp is close to 168. I'm talking about the temp in the MLT not whatever may have made it get to that temp. Sorry, I thought that was just understood.

We're in agreement then! I wanted to be sure I was understanding you correctly.