Decoction mash help

[Abrayton]

I would like to attempt my first decoction mash on a doppelbock recipe found online. I’m a bit confused about the mash schedule after entering it into BeerSmith. Is it telling me to use direct heat from protein rest to sac #1 and then decoctions to hit sac #2 and mash out? Or am I way off?

 

[Abrayton]

I think I figured it out. The direct heat is from sac 2 to mash out but I think I can pull thin mash and use that as a third decoction to hit mash out instead of direct heat.

 

[kevin58]

This should help...

 

[Abrayton]

This should help...

Thanks. I came across that one last nigh. It really helped. Now I just need to figure out my grainbill!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Decoction aside, skip the protein rest; it's not necessary and some would argue even detrimental.

 

[Abrayton]

I changed the mash schedule and I do plan to skip the protein rest, mash in at 149 then decoct to 160 and mash out. Thanks for the responses

 

[btcost]

Get rid of the Melanoiden Malt. The actual decoction takes its place.

This is my decoction mash schedule.
Mash in @ 1.5/quarts per # grain to hit a 142-144 target.

Rest 15 min @ 142-144
Pull thick decoction (think oatmeal with a little liquid)
I do one “scoop” per # grain (1 quart scoops)

Raise thick decoction to 158. Hold there 15 min. Then boil thick decoction 5-30 min depending on style.

Add decoction back to main mash. Targeting 156-158. Hold main mash there 30-45 min.

Pull thin decoction. Boil and add back to main mash to hit mash out. 165-168.

Sparge as usual.

 

[cactusgarrett]

This brings up a question i have with the process.

Recently i did a decoction to go from 144->160:
I hit 144, waited 20min, then pulled the decoction (uneasy as to whether i had it too thin or not, but that's besides the point). With this decoction, i just brought it right up to boiling over 10min and didn't rest it in the beta range, and I'm paranoid about this.

Now... boiling kills the enzymes in the decoction portion, but is that irrelevant? Once added back to the main mash, do the beta enzymes in the portion that wasn't decocted go to work on the starches/sugars in the boiled portion? I'm concerned that not resting the decocted portion at the beta range for a significant amount of time would make that portions sugars unavailable downstream. Ultimately I think not, though, since i DID experience the (as I understand it) typical efficiency bump that comes along with decocting (~7%).

 

[Vale71]

Don't worry, residual enzymes in the mash will convert everything, it will just take a bit longer.
Original decoction mashes did not have any rest in the decocted mash, simply because holding a rest at any temperature was a bit hard to do before the moderm thermometer was invented...

 

[cactusgarrett]

Cool cool; that's what made most sense and what i was hoping for. Good point on the thermom concept.

 

[Abrayton]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I took the Melanoidin out. Any other thoughts on the recipe? I did get a suggestion to dump the Munich I and use all Munich II.

 

[btcost]

100% dark Munich (Munich 2) is perfect for a dopplebock.

Do a long thick decoction. 30 min boil.

Resting the thick decoction @ 158 is just another efficiency boost. 2-4% extra imhop.

Have fun!

 

[Abrayton]

Thanks for the detailed response! Last questions before I order grains. Is the Caramunich necessary? I can’t get it here and don’t want to use crystal 40 as a sub. And if I were to add some Cararoma would about .25lb be enough?

 

[btcost]

Thanks for the detailed response! Last questions before I order grains. Is the Caramunich necessary? I can’t get it here and don’t want to use crystal 40 as a sub. And if I were to add some Cararoma would about .25lb be enough?

I don’t think so. I would have some carafa II or III on hand for color. I would add that in when you slarge

 

[Abrayton]

Final grainbill...I think

16lb Munich II
8oz caramunich II
4oz carafa special II

As long as I'm only using a 60 min addition, I'm going to stick with .5oz Magnum.

Double decoction

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Abrayton]

Get rid of the Melanoiden Malt. The actual decoction takes its place.

This is my decoction mash schedule.
Mash in @ 1.5/quarts per # grain to hit a 142-144 target.

Rest 15 min @ 142-144
Pull thick decoction (think oatmeal with a little liquid)
I do one “scoop” per # grain (1 quart scoops)

Raise thick decoction to 158. Hold there 15 min. Then boil thick decoction 5-30 min depending on style.

Add decoction back to main mash. Targeting 156-158. Hold main mash there 30-45 min.

Pull thin decoction. Boil and add back to main mash to hit mash out. 165-168.

Sparge as usual.

Are these the temp rests to use for a doppelbock? Beersmith is showtime will hit about 1.013 FG which I believe is low for the style?

 

[btcost]

That’s what I would do. The difference with a dopplebock being that I’ll boil the decoction for 20-30 min.

Vs 5-10 min for a Pilsner.

Your FG should be a bit higher. 1018 ish. OG in the high 1070’s low 1080’s

 

[cactusgarrett]

Are these the temp rests to use for a doppelbock?

Seems to be typical rest temps for a Hochkurz schedule (irrespective of the decoction). I wouldn't say it's just for dopplebocks.

 

[Abrayton]

Another Beersmith question. I have almost 18lb of grains but beersmith is telling me to pull 1.5gallons of mash, significantly less than 1quart per pound of grain? And after adjusting my step temperatures my expected FG went to 1.011.

 

[btcost]

I don’t trust BeerSmith for final gravity. For me it’s always higher then actual.

And it’s decoction calculation is horrible.

I pull 1 “scoop” per pound of grain. Not all scoops are full. I slowly add back the boiled decoction until I hit my next step. Sometimes leaving some decoction mash behind. And waiting for it to cool before adding it back.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I just did a decoct with a festbier to go from 144 to 158. My own calc was to pull ~6qts, which was what Beersmith called for. To give you a ballpark idea.

 

[Abrayton]

Boiling now. Hit all numbers almost dead on. Thanks for all of the advice.

 

[Abrayton]

This beer is happily fermenting away. Brewed it today. Hit all my numbers which surprised me for the first time doing a decoction mash. What a fun way to brew! Took a lot longer but very enjoyable.

 

[btcost]

Awesome!!!

I love decoction mashing. I do it more then single infusion these days.

Glad everything went well.

 

[Abrayton]

Looks like she finished at 1.016. Sample was pretty tasty. Gonna crash to 32° for 7 days then then package and lager for a few months. Now the big decision is bottle or keg...hmmm

 

[Abrayton]

Update- ended up kegging this beer and it turned out awesome! Will likely be my first competition beer if I don’t drink it all first!