Deciphering a malt sheet to figure out extract potential

[Rob2010SS]

Looking at using Simpsons Crystal Dark in a brew coming up and looking to determine the extract potential. On Simpson's website, I see this...

Then, on BYO's website, I see an article that has this formula...

If I take and plug in the 69% into that formula...

SG = 1 + (69/100) * .04621 = 1.032

Couple of questions...
1. Is that the correct use of that formula?
2. If so, then the extract for this malt is 1.032, correct?

Thanks for the help.

 

[VikeMan]

That formula is missing one more multiplier, i.e. (1 - Moisture %).

Also, the "Extract % d.b" from the Simpson's web site clearly means "dry basis," but that could either mean Dry Basis Fine Grind (DBFG) or Dry Basis Coarse Grind (DBCG).

 

[TheMadKing]

That formula is missing one more multiplier, i.e. (1 - Moisture %).

Also, the "Extract % d.b" from the Simpson's web site clearly means "dry basis," but that could either mean Dry Basis Fine Grind (DBFG) or Dry Basis Coarse Grind (DBCG).

I would be pretty confident in saying DBFG since that is the maximum potential of the malt under lab conditions and is what is typically used to calculate the potential

Yeah accounting for the moisture it's only 1.030

I wonder why they left that off. Seems odd

 

[Yooper]

I've seen that in these cases, homebrewers will use the extract % on that of simple sugar- which would be 69% of 46 (the ppg of simple sugar).
That is 31.74, which is pretty close to the formula you posted and about a million times easier for me to make a quick estimate.

 

[doug293cz]

That formula is missing one more multiplier, i.e. (1 - Moisture %).

Also, the "Extract % d.b" from the Simpson's web site clearly means "dry basis," but that could either mean Dry Basis Fine Grind (DBFG) or Dry Basis Coarse Grind (DBCG).

The moisture content multiplier is used if you want to convert dry basis to "as-is" basis. But, I believe most extract potentials in databases, etc. are dry basis, and it is then up to the brewer to make the moisture correction if they want more accurate calculations. Are you aware of any sources that state potentials in SG form are usually listed for "as-is" malt?

Brew on

 

[Rob2010SS]

So where would the moisture part of the formula fall in?

SG = 1+ (DBFG / 100)(1 - Moisture %) * 0.04621 <-- Look right?

So in this case...

SG = 1 + (69/100)(1-.05) * 0.04621

Looks to be the right place. When I run that calculation, comes up with 1.030.

 

[Rob2010SS]

The moisture content multiplier is used if you want to convert dry basis to "as-is" basis. But, I believe most extract potentials in databases, etc. are dry basis, and it is then up to the brewer to make the moisture correction if they want more accurate calculations. Are you aware of any sources that state potentials in SG form are usually listed for "as-is" malt?

Brew on

To expand on this, when I look up the extract potential of grains in these databases, like this one for example, should I be making further modifications to the extract potential in my recipes based on the moisture content in that grain?

Prior to this conversation, I would have just stopped at 1.032 being the extract potential for Crystal Dark. However, now that I know to take the moisture into account in this case, I will.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is - databases like the above, aren't factoring in the moisture % so if we want more accurate numbers, we should be doing that?

 

[VikeMan]

The moisture content multiplier is used if you want to convert dry basis to "as-is" basis. But, I believe most extract potentials in databases, etc. are dry basis, and it is then up to the brewer to make the moisture correction if they want more accurate calculations. Are you aware of any sources that state potentials in SG form are usually listed for "as-is" malt?

Beats me. I do the calculations from the malt data sheet (including moisture) and use the result as "PPG" in my sheet.

 

[doug293cz]

Beats me. I do the calculations from the malt data sheet (including moisture) and use the result as "PPG" in my sheet.

That's the cleanest way to do it, as then there is no ambiguity. What I haven't seen is anything definitive about whether or not databases that give potential in SG form are basing it on dry basis or as-is basis. I have assumed that they are dry basis, mostly because 80% DBFG works out to 1.037, and 80% as-is would be 1.0355 (which seems low for a base malt.) What would be really nasty is if some of the entries in an SG database are dry basis and some are as-is.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

To expand on this, when I look up the extract potential of grains in these databases, like this one for example, should I be making further modifications to the extract potential in my recipes based on the moisture content in that grain?

Prior to this conversation, I would have just stopped at 1.032 being the extract potential for Crystal Dark. However, now that I know to take the moisture into account in this case, I will.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is - databases like the above, aren't factoring in the moisture % so if we want more accurate numbers, we should be doing that?

I have always assumed that the malt and grain potentials are dry basis. Looking at the linked table, it looks like the extract and syrup potentials are as-is basis. I wish I knew the definitive answer.

Brew on