De-alcoholizing beer (Belgian Wit)

[lordbeermestrength]

Lets think about this for a minute. We all agree that 2 bottles of 12oz NA(0.5%) is perfectly acceptable for a preggo, right? So, lets assume we can brew a beer that is 4%, and assume we can only take half of the alcohol out. That gives us 2% ABV. Lets also say that you drink only 6oz of said beer. This gives exactly the same alcohol content. Not a problem. At all. Especially when you consider how many women find out they are pregnant AFTER they have had something to drink, and the babies come out JUST FINE. Like my daughter for example.

This discussion reminds me of the time my wife made the mistake of posting on facebook that she drank a cup of coffee while pregnant. Some people don't know how to mind their own business. We need less preaching and more thinking (and possibly drinking).

 

[ArcaneXor]

I wonder if the alcohol can be reduced Enzymatically. Granted, this would have to take a different pathway than human ethanol metabolism, since acetaldehyde and acetic acid aren't particularly beneficial to the flavor profile of most beers.

 

[passedpawn]

Why even add yeast to a non-alcoholic beer?

(passedpawn dons dunce cap proactively...)

 

[ArcaneXor]

Why even add yeast to a non-alcoholic beer?

(passedpawn dons dunce cap proactively...)

Without yeast, you just have wort.

 

[MazdaMatt]

Especially when you consider how many women find out they are pregnant AFTER they have had something to drink, and the babies come out JUST FINE.

...or the women who are ****faced when they GET pregnant. Those are plentiful.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

OP might find this helpful; Azeotrope.

At work, I've gone the opposite direction; removing water from Isopropanol by running it through a molecular seive. There was a BrewStrong Q&A with Charlie Bamforth and he mentioned a near beer that he had made in Saudi (a distillation was involved). He said it also involved 'adding a lot of stuff back in' after the removal of alcohol and even then it was only 'beer-like'.

 

[passedpawn]

Without yeast, you just have wort.

Right.

I was leading to the following proposition: it might be easier to build a NA beer by not adding the alcohol in the first place.

Try describing the difference between wort and NA beer. I'm sure there are non-alcohol components created during fermentation. Maybe easier to add those, and not the yeast. Then, there's no alcohol to remove.

Just some food for thought.

 

[lordbeermestrength]

I'm sure there are non-alcohol components created during fermentation. Maybe easier to add those, and not the yeast. Then, there's no alcohol to remove.

Just some food for thought.

Theoretically that sounds great, but I imagine in practice adding those compounds would be much harder than it's worth... maybe. I don't know.

I heard once (don't remember where, or what source) that you need about 1.5-2% minimum to get those flavor compounds that occur during fermentation. I think perhaps shooting for a beer in that range and then "NA'ing" it would maybe be the best way to do the least amount of damage to the beer?

I like the idea of doing a big beer and "NA'ing" it, but it seems to me that process would do a lot of damage to the final product, more than would be done to a small beer.

 

[Nashbrewer]

Would it be a good attempt to make the beer up front with out the hops or any aroma based ingredients(coriander, and orange peel). Letting it ferment to reduce the sweetness appropriately, then bring it to a boil and pitch the hops from there. That would keep the beer at a high temp for 60 minutes to drive off as much alcohol as is probably possible in a home setting, and not re-boil the AA from the hops that might change the flavor profile. Not sure how well this would work in practice, just a thought and open to correction.

 

[JetSmooth]

Right.

I was leading to the following proposition: it might be easier to build a NA beer by not adding the alcohol in the first place.

Try describing the difference between wort and NA beer. I'm sure there are non-alcohol components created during fermentation. Maybe easier to add those, and not the yeast. Then, there's no alcohol to remove.

Just some food for thought.

I guess you could brew up some hoppy Malta.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I guess you could brew up some hoppy Malta.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[lordbeermestrength]

Would it be a good attempt to make the beer up front with out the hops or any aroma based ingredients(coriander, and orange peel). Letting it ferment to reduce the sweetness appropriately, then bring it to a boil and pitch the hops from there. That would keep the beer at a high temp for 60 minutes to drive off as much alcohol as is probably possible in a home setting, and not re-boil the AA from the hops that might change the flavor profile. Not sure how well this would work in practice, just a thought and open to correction.

Good idea! The only problem I see is bringing to a boil after fermentation. Seems like that would drive off a lot of the flavor compounds from the yeast/malt. But its worth a try.

 

[HerotBrewer]

Not another drinking and pregnancy thread.... Why won't they die?

Seriously though, pretty cool experiment.

 

[repomanz]

couldn't you freeze this after fermentation and drain the alcohol? What I am missing with this suggestion?

 

[dukerutledge]

couldn't you freeze this after fermentation and drain the alcohol? What I am missing with this suggestion?

This sounds like an interesting approach...

 

[FromZwolle]

couldn't you freeze this after fermentation and drain the alcohol? What I am missing with this suggestion?

you'd likely lose way too much of the actual beery flavors that way.

 

[emjay]

Freezing beer is used to remove water and concentrate both the flavor AND the ABV (e.g. eisbocks). Removing the alcohol with this method, would logically remove a lot of the flavor.

In fact, you could achieve the exact same thing (and get a greater final volume), by simply diluting your beer with water.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Would it be a good attempt to make the beer up front with out the hops or any aroma based ingredients(coriander, and orange peel). Letting it ferment to reduce the sweetness appropriately, then bring it to a boil and pitch the hops from there. That would keep the beer at a high temp for 60 minutes to drive off as much alcohol as is probably possible in a home setting, and not re-boil the AA from the hops that might change the flavor profile. Not sure how well this would work in practice, just a thought and open to correction.

I think this is probably your best bet, but it still wouldn't remove more than roughly half of the alcohol. Even heat is the best way to go about this...I would cook it in an oven if you have that capability.

If I was to go about brewing a "low-alcohol" beer, I would brew it as I normally would, but I would do like you say and only boil for 30 minutes. I would add everything pre-30 to the boil, and then cool as usual. Making a highly fermentable wort will give you better attentuation and hopefully not leave too many unfermented sugars behind.

I would bring it to 175-180F in an oven. If you don't have a HUGE oven, possibly use some sort of makeshift heating coil in the wort to evenly distribute heat and make sure you're evaporating everything. My first thought it to heat directly with flame, and also to recirculate 180F water through a wort chiller (heater) while it's in the wort.

This should bring you down to a reasonable level. You'll still need to make some sort of hop/orange/coriander tea in order to get your aroma/flavor.

Obviously, the best way to go about carbonating this would be with a kegging system. Adding priming sugar is going to up your alcohol a little more. You'll also have to add more yeast if you're bottle conditioning and you risk fermenting anything that wasn't previously fermented.

 

[passedpawn]

I guess you could brew up some hoppy Malta.

Malta Goya is 1.060. Clearly not what you want.

How about mashing a 1.010 beer, boiling with hops and possibly some other aromatics (cloves, etc), and carbonating.

 

[HHP]

couldn't you freeze this after fermentation and drain the alcohol? What I am missing with this suggestion?

You will never be able to separate the alcohol from the water completely with any combination of heat or cold.

With this method, I'll bet the alcohol would be trapped in the crystaline structure of the ice and you would be unable to drain it.

 

[Rich71093]

This is a very interesting experiment. Something that I was thinking of trying for a low-alcohol brew. Can't wait to see if it affects flavor.

By the way, how can you test it to see how much alcohol is in it?

 

[HerotBrewer]

My copy of Clone Brews includes some very low ABV beers (2-3 percent). Might want to check that out as well.

 

[Amity]

There are some really great ideas here! I think I might do another test batch soon. Thanks for the great discussion.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Enough with the pregnancy and alcohol debate. This thread is about low alcohol beer.

 

[bovinejony]

Ethanol can be converted to bi-products such as aldehydes (CH3CH=O) when oxidized. However, most oxidizing agents are not the most appetizing of chemicals, so you create something like the buy a cat to get rid of a mouse scenario. I know you're SWMBO will only be pregnant for so long but a distillation process may increase your separation efficiency. The added cooling temperatures will allow for a finer selection of boil. Remember, since the wort has a **** ton of sugars and other goodies in it, that you should increase the temperature accordingly since it is most likely more difficult for the ethanol to boil out due to these intermolecular forces.

 

[emjay]

Enough with the pregnancy and alcohol debate. This thread is about low alcohol beer.

I think the issue with the pregnancy here has to do with the fact that the OP is looking for ways to minimize alcohol because of it, but all the ideas (and it's important to note this includes his own) are, at best, minimally effective and totally unverifiable without an actual lab, and at worst, completely ineffective (and in at least one case, could even concentrate it...), which, given the purpose of lowering the alcohol in this case, is pretty reckless.

 

[passedpawn]

the OP is looking for ways to minimize alcohol because of it, but all the ideas (and it's important to note this includes his own) are, at best, minimally effective and totally unverifiable

My idea guaranteed zero alcohol. Maybe you missed it.

 

[carnevoodoo]

How about mashing a 1.010 beer, boiling with hops and possibly some other aromatics (cloves, etc), and carbonating.

I don't see this working.

The issue is that unfermented wort doesn't taste like beer. Even at 1.010, it will just be bitter sugar water. The yeast do a lot more than just convert sugar.

 

[kinkothecarp]

I don't see this working.

The issue is that unfermented wort doesn't taste like beer. Even at 1.010, it will just be bitter sugar water. The yeast do a lot more than just convert sugar.

Right. Yeast tend to dry things out via processes outside of fermentation. Your wort will taste awful as a beer.

I don't think any solid method of homebrewing without alcohol can be readily available to us simply because of its complexities. I wonder if the distilling method someone mentioned above is even legal - isn't the product of that a form of moonshine?

 

[seabass07]

Isn't it legal to distill alcohol for fuel use? If it's not going to be consumed, there isn't a problem. Just light it on fire and call it fuel.