Dark Belgian IPA

[Graphicalism]

Hi guys,

I'd much appreciate to hear some opinions about my new recipe, a Dark Belgian IPA. I've never brewed an IPA before (it's not really what I usually go for in beer, I'm more of an yeast appreciator). I designed this recipe over an Oatmeal Stout I had done in the past, it has worked out quite well and with a few modifications I transformed it into this DBIPA.

Here're the specs:

Batch Size (fermenter): 28.00 l

2.00 kg Pale Ale (Thomas Fawcett) (5.0 EBC) Grain 38.5 %
1.80 kg CHÂTEAU PILSEN 6RW (3.5 EBC) Grain 34.6 %
0.50 kg Carafa II (Weyermann) (817.5 EBC) Grain 9.6 %
0.30 kg Cara Belge (35.0 EBC) Grain 5.8 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 5.8 %
0.20 kg CHÂTEAU SMOKED (8.1 EBC) Grain 5.8 %

35.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 40.0 IBUs
50.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs

1pkg (1.5L starter) Belgian Saison II (White Labs - WLP566) [8.87 ml] Yeast

1.054 SG
40.0 IBUs
57.7 EBC
4.7 %

Protein Rest 55.0 C 15 min
Beta 64.0 C 20 min
Alpha 70.0 C 40 min
Mash Out

Sorry, temperature units are in Celsius.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

 

[55x11]

Hi guys,

I'd much appreciate to hear some opinions about my new recipe, a Dark Belgian IPA. I've never brewed an IPA before (it's not really what I usually go for in beer, I'm more of an yeast appreciator). I designed this recipe over an Oatmeal Stout I had done in the past, it has worked out quite well and with a few modifications I transformed it into this DBIPA.

Here're the specs:

Batch Size (fermenter): 28.00 l

2.00 kg Pale Ale (Thomas Fawcett) (5.0 EBC) Grain 38.5 %
1.80 kg CHÂTEAU PILSEN 6RW (3.5 EBC) Grain 34.6 %
0.50 kg Carafa II (Weyermann) (817.5 EBC) Grain 9.6 %
0.30 kg Cara Belge (35.0 EBC) Grain 5.8 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 5.8 %
0.20 kg CHÂTEAU SMOKED (8.1 EBC) Grain 5.8 %

35.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 40.0 IBUs
50.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs

1pkg (1.5L starter) Belgian Saison II (White Labs - WLP566) [8.87 ml] Yeast

1.054 SG
40.0 IBUs
57.7 EBC
4.7 %

Protein Rest 55.0 C 15 min
Beta 64.0 C 20 min
Alpha 70.0 C 40 min
Mash Out

Sorry, temperature units are in Celsius.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

Ok, so I have never done Black Belgian IPA, but to me there is too many clashing flavors here.

Let's start with IPA - generally the idea to have a simple clean malt bill to provide dry finish and accentuate the hops.
Now let's go to Belgian IPA - you are adding esters and phenols from belgian yeast, but you still want the malt to be in the background.
Finally, let's consider black IPA - you want dark color to mess with the color-flavor association, but generally you want to really avoid any roasty character. Which is why dehusked dark malt like CARAFA (I prefer CARAFA III myself) are the way to go.

I would definitely get rid of smoked malts.
CaraBelge will give you sweetness and raisins/dried plums/caramel/toffee. Maybe more appropriate in Dubbels/Quads, but not here.

CaraAroma will be again adding raisin/malty/sweetness and also can add some roasty bitterness.

I would keep the malt bill limited to base malt ONLY. Pale malt or Belgian Pilsner (if you want to stay with "belgian" ingredients, even though it's not really traditional style). If you can get US 2-row (you seem to be based in Europe?), that would be even cleaner.

You want to accentuate the hops and the belgian yeast character and any malt character will distract from it and will clash and muddle the flavor/aroma.

Hops: I would raise it beyond 40 IBU, maybe to 50-60 or so, but then again I am a West Coast Californian. I don't think Pacific Jem is a very good dry hopping variety - it gives blackberry aroma which could be nice in some beers, but I personally prefer citrus and piney character in my IPAs. Simcoe is good but I would add something else to add complexity of aroma. I would use at least 50-60g (1.7-2.1 oz) of Simcoe and maybe similar amount of some other hop, like Citra, Amarillo, Centennial, Galaxy, etc. I have a California/American take on IPA but I think those will work best at dry hopping phase. You want to have a lot of hop aroma in your IPA. Especially since the mind will be playing tricks on most people and they will think they are drinking a stout.

Mash low, ferment a bit high (after 2-3 days) so you get some of those belgian notes from saison yeast.

 

[Graphicalism]

Hey 55x11,

Thanks a lot for the review.

Indeed it has a very complex malt base, I totally agree that on a normal IPA the idea is to keep the palate very much focused on the hop flavours, but this time it's a dark beer nevertheless. Therefore I'm not sure I agree in taking it to the extreme of Base malts only... not sure.
I guess you're right about not treating it like a stout, but more like a light-bodied dark ale, that may be a better decision, thanks.
- Swapping Carafa II for Carafa III may help avoiding any astringency from roast malts in addition to hop bitterness, after all it's there for colour more than anything. -

The sweet, bready, caramel characteristics of the malts were chosen to take the beer a little on the direction of a stout full-mouth flavour, with residual sugars and viscous body, but indeed that may be too much in the end. Same for the hop choices, bringing up earthy and berry aromas to complement the, somewhat, wintery feel of the stout.

The Smokey malt was intended as a surprise factor, and in that case it would go with the stout characteristics of the final beer. Maybe with 100g or less, making is very very subtle it would be interesting...?

Thanks for your inputs, very much appreciated.
I will re-think these points above and bring the new recipe back to this thread.

 

[Graphicalism]

Hey!

As promised, here's the updated recipe:


Batch Size (fermenter): 28.00 l

2.00 kg Pale Ale (Thomas Fawcett) (5.0 EBC) Grain 42.6 %
2.00 kg CHÂTEAU PILSEN 6RW (3.5 EBC) Grain 42.6 %
0.40 kg Cara Belge (35.0 EBC) Grain 8.5 %
0.30 kg Carafa III (Weyermann) (1034 EBC) Grain 6.4 %

35.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 40.0 IBUs
50.00 g Pacific Gem [15.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs
20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs

1pkg (1.5L starter) Belgian Saison II (White Labs - WLP566) [8.87 ml] Yeast

1.050 SG
42.0 IBUs
42.0 EBC
5.0 %

Protein Rest 55.0 C 15 min
Beta 64.0 C 60 min
Alpha 70.0 C 30 min


Prost!