Danstar Munich VS Fermentis WB-06 (Happy Wife Wheat)

[jeremy0209]

UPDATE!!!: Munich is at 1.020 and the airlock is bubbling every 7 seconds. The WB-06 is at 1.015 and the airlock is bubbling every 12 seconds. Munich is darker. Since I'm still what you would consider a 'noob' at aroma and flavor, I'm going to have to say that he WB-06 is more 'phenolic or medicinal' than the Munich....it definitely has a stronger smell than the Munich...much more like the hefe's that I'm accustomed to. I want to say that the Munich is 'cleaner' smelling. As far as taste goes, the WB-06 seems more complex to me with the Munich being a little cleaner. I think I'm getting more banana out of the Munich. I guess maybe the WB-06 is more clovey. The Munich is definitely smoother and it's the one that I prefer, but the WB-06 is more on par with the hefe's that I'm familiar with. We'll see how they are when I get some carbonation on them. Probably within the next week. I'll keep an eye on the gravities. They were supposed to finish around 1.016 and the WB-06 is already at 1.015 with no detectable diacetyl.

 

[jeremy0209]

Another Update: I bottled the WB-06 5 days ago and just now got around to bottling the Munich. As far as I can tell, the Fermentis is the most consistent with what I know as a hefe. The Munich seems thin and watery...a little banana aroma and flavor....kind of citrusy. The Fermentis definitely has a bolder aroma and flavor leaning toward banana (it smells a lot like Troegs Dreamweaver...I may have to pick up some Dreamweaver for comparison). Both fermented at 60F. I'll probably make my final call on aroma and flavor (including which one I prefer) in 3 weeks. Oh yeah, both of them finished at 1.012...down from 1.050.

 

[CarnieBrew]

I've tried wb-06 in hefe's and dunkelweizens, and fermented in the mid 60's and mid-70's, but all my wb-06 brews come out slightly tart. The ones fermented at higher temps get banana aromas, but no banana flavour.

Instead of trying Munich, I turned to Wyeast 3068...did a dunkel fermented at 73, and underpitched. Smelled like bananas during fermentation...but on tasting...tart! Almost identical to wb-06. Argh. I've just put down another dunkel today with the exact same ingredients, which I'll ferment at 63, but if it tastes tart I'm gonna give up and just go back to buying Weihenstephan and Paulaner darn it...

 

[ShaineT]

Been reading this forum for about 3 years for educational purposes. This thread inspired me to sign up since I just started a Hefe with WB-06. I've always made starters from White Labs yeasts but didn't have time so grabbed WB-06 when picking up hops at my LHBS. Milled too much base malt for 10gal. so had to recalculate for a 12 gal. batch. My brewhouse efficiency was very high so had to max out my pre-boil volume to 14.5 gal at 1.058 (new system for me). Pitched WB-06 into 68F wort at OG 1.062 (hmm, bigger beer than intended, oh well). Fermentation chamber is 57F(+/-2), quick start yeast nice Krausen at 24 hours. I'll turn up the chamber 5 degrees after peak of primary.

 

[CarnieBrew]

I've tried wb-06 in hefe's and dunkelweizens, and fermented in the mid 60's and mid-70's, but all my wb-06 brews come out slightly tart. The ones fermented at higher temps get banana aromas, but no banana flavour.

Instead of trying Munich, I turned to Wyeast 3068...did a dunkel fermented at 73, and underpitched. Smelled like bananas during fermentation...but on tasting...tart! Almost identical to wb-06. Argh. I've just put down another dunkel today with the exact same ingredients, which I'll ferment at 63, but if it tastes tart I'm gonna give up and just go back to buying Weihenstephan and Paulaner darn it...

The last post reminded me to follow this up. I'm surprised I forgot, as the 17C (62.5F) fermentation of my latest dunkel with 3068 turned out absolutely brilliant, if I may say so myself! The taste and aroma are virtually spot on for the Weihenstephan weizen style. I couldn't be more happy as I'm a huge fan of this style. From now on it's 3068 at 17C all the way...

 

[ShaineT]

Another thing to try that might affect banana/clove balance is a ferulic acid rest at 111 degrees for 20 minutes.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Another thing to try that might affect banana/clove balance is a ferulic acid rest at 111 degrees for 20 minutes.

I think this helps. I have done weizen beers with and without a 10 min rest at about 113f and I notice a subtle difference. But, caveat, I didn't do a blind tasting so it could be confirmation bias at work.

 

[ShaineT]

I think this helps. I have done weizen beers with and without a 10 min rest at about 113f and I notice a subtle difference. But, caveat, I didn't do a blind tasting so it could be confirmation bias at work.

I actually didn't do that rest on my current hefe, figured lower temps and the WB-06 would already have control of esters etc. After 7 days at 57-58F Krausen started to drop with less CO2 production so I slowly raised ambient to 65F and it still has good activity with some krausen at day 10. I'll give it another 4 days or so and check gravity.

 

[ShaineT]

Having issues with this brew. Looking back at my notes and made a big mistake as I have a pre-boil gravity of 1.058 and no post-boil measurement. Calculated an OG based on 1.5 gallons evaporation and I'm at around 1.063
So the krausen dropped out at day 13 and I needed room in my fermentation chamber so I figured "its a hefe, it can be racked and kegged fresh". So racked to 2 corny kegs and FG is 1.020, hmmmm. I'm doing a yeast wash from the fermenter and will pitch back a small amount of it into the kegs, put on air-lock adapters and let them sit in my 72F basement for a while. This will likely end up being a weizenbock! I wanted a 5%ABV summer hefe LOL. Oh well.

 

[m_perci]

I too did this experiment, split a ten gallon batch using this recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/widmer-hefeweizen-american-wheat-129051/
I'm limited to dry yeasts because of where I live and have been trying to find a good heff making yeast.


Just kegged both batches today, both started at 1.048 and ended at 1.01. Like others have posted, the danstar tastes sour and very watery. The safale tastes much better, with banana/clove hints found in a heff.

Danstar needed a blow off tube and took off very fast. Safale took its time to start, but also needed a blow off tube. I fermented both at 67.

Lesson learned, no more danstar Munich for me. Now I'm debating how to improve this crummy danstar sour taste. Maybe dry hop the heck out of it and try to mask the flavor...

 

[jeremy0209]

The Danstar sour taste will correct itself. Just have some patience with it. At the beginning, I felt that the WB-06 was far superior but, at the end of the batch, the Danstar was the one that I preferred. It's very interesting how they both change over a few weeks.

 

[Ryat66]

The Danstar sour taste will correct itself. Just have some patience with it.

Yep, I'm reviving this thread...

I recently read (somewhere...) that Danstar Munich is the same strain as WLP380. I have no way to agree or disagree with that but I'm willing to give it a shot as I've been on a dry yeast spree over the past few months. I've read several clues that tend to make me agree it is a kin to WLP380 and the statement above reaffirms my experience with WLP380. I used to push it with my weissbiers but they were always tart/bitter early on, so one time I decided to just put them in the fridge for 3-4 weeks after carbonation was complete and they were fantastic after that. Like any beer, a little cold conditioning works a small miracle and the advice to drink this style young shouldn't be taken too literal.

A little red wagon of mine about this style...

I feel like some of the reviews of the dry weissbier strains are unfair because people don't know how to brew this style. Mainly, I see so many people trying to duplicate the traditional weissbier character by fermenting high (high 60s to low 70F), that is exactly opposite of what we should be doing! The traditional aromas and flavors are produced by stressing the yeast on the low end, not the high end. Look at any authority on the style you will see the proper advice, start the beer low and allow it to naturally rise into the lower 60s. My procedure is to pitch at 58F-60F and allow a natural rise to 62F-64F, I would call 65F a definite upper limit in my experience. Above that, you will start to notice thinning body and a definite lack of definition throughout the beer. A nice read is Kai's wiki dedicated to the style. link Also, Eric Warner's book, German Wheat Beer, which can be had quite cheap on Amazon, is a great reference of the style.

So, anyway, I will be giving Danstar Munich a workout in the near future and will report back. **fingers crossed**

 

[dmtaylor]

Yep, I'm reviving this thread...

I feel like some of the reviews of the dry weissbier strains are unfair because people don't know how to brew this style. Mainly, I see so many people trying to duplicate the traditional weissbier character by fermenting high (high 60s to low 70F), that is exactly opposite of what we should be doing! The traditional aromas and flavors are produced by stressing the yeast on the low end, not the high end. Look at any authority on the style you will see the proper advice, start the beer low and allow it to naturally rise into the lower 60s. My procedure is to pitch at 58F-60F and allow a natural rise to 62F-64F, I would call 65F a definite upper limit in my experience. Above that, you will start to notice thinning body and a definite lack of definition throughout the beer. A nice read is Kai's wiki dedicated to the style. link Also, Eric Warner's book, German Wheat Beer, which can be had quite cheap on Amazon, is a great reference of the style.

So, anyway, I will be giving Danstar Munich a workout in the near future and will report back. **fingers crossed**

Another resurrection...

Dude... how did this turn out? Did you use Munich yeast? I'm debating whether to try it. Your advice above reflects my own experience and education. I intend to try both dry yeasts eventually (probably not for a while, but eventually) but wonder if Munich yeast is even worth it. Any update would be very much appreciated!

 

[CarnieBrew]

We can add to this now...Danstar produces a new yeast (since this thread was first about) called "Munich Classic", which many are saying is (finally!) the dried version of 3068. I still haven't tried it but will soon.

BTW, I have used Munich and WB-06 with the same low temps as I use with 3068, i.e. fermenting at 17C (62F), and it doesn't work. I'm convinced WB-06 is more for Witbier, and prehaps Munich too. Looking forward to trying Munich Classic at the 17C temps.

 

[Ryat66]

Another resurrection...

Dude... how did this turn out? Did you use Munich yeast? I'm debating whether to try it. Your advice above reflects my own experience and education. I intend to try both dry yeasts eventually (probably not for a while, but eventually) but wonder if Munich yeast is even worth it. Any update would be very much appreciated!

Hey man, it's always great to re-visit this thread.

I'm sorry that I didn't respond back even though I had said I would. So, last summer I made two different batches, one with the Munich and the other with Munich Classic. I would need to review my notes for specifics but the Munich Classic was 10x better than the Munich.

Personally, I would order them as follow:

1. Danstar Munich Classic
2. Fermentis WB-06
3. Danstar Munich

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks guys. I'm thinking I'll never use the old "Munich" ever, but would be willing to try the newer "Munich Classic" if I can find that one. And I still think WB-06 is probably worth some experiments.

If you cannot already tell, I'm very interested in getting some dry yeasts to take the place of old liquid favorites like WLP380 and Wyeast 3068. Dry yeast is so much easier to use and keeps in the fridge for friggin forever. If I can change to an almost 100% dry yeast homebrewery, I'll be a very happy guy. So that's the goal and background.

 

[ncbrewer]

I've used Danstar Munich on a total of 18 hefeweizen brews and I like it a lot. So much that I've never tried the WB-06 (narrow-minded, I know). I ferment at 66 for 2 weeks and drink at 2 weeks in the bottle. I get clove, but no banana.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Been looking for a dry wit yeast. I found this and book marked it;

http://barleypopmaker.info/2014/09/02/a-case-for-dry-yeast-forget-the-stereotypes/

Safbrew WB-06

This yeast is specifically designed to be used with wheat beers. This yeast provides the clove phenol and banana esters one would look for in a heffeweizen style of beer. I have personally used this yeast in a heffeweizen with good results. Flocculation is low, as one would hope for in this type of yeast. The apparent attenuation is listed at about 86%, so you end up with a crisp refreshing beer. The working range of this yeast is 54°-77° F (12°-25° C) but ideally should be used at 64°-75° F (18°-24° C). I ferment this one at 68° and end up with a good amount of clove-like esters but the balance leans towards the banana esters. The beers you want to ferment with this yeast are the traditional heffeweizen beers, dunkelweizen, weizenbocks, Belgian Wit**.

To achieve the right ester/phenol levels consider the recommendation of fermenting slightly warmer or cooler.

*=Ferment on the warmer side of the scale

**= Ferment on the cooler side of the scale

Munich Wheat Beer Yeast

I have zero personal experience with this yeast, but this is Lallemond’s version of WB-06 and I’m sure the characteristics and quality are similar. Munich Wheat is billed as a strain from Bavaria, Germany. Attenuation is medium to high and flocculation is pretty much non-existent, as would be expected in a hefeweizen yeast. The aroma is estery on both flavor and aroma and produces the typical banana esters. Some mild clove phenol production is also there. It’s best to use this yeast at about 62°F (17°C) and the more you vary from that sweet spot, the more ester and phenol production you will have.

 

[yeastylad]

I used WB-06 recently in a Dunkelweizen as an emergency backup when my 1st choice liquid yeast was DOA. I used the Jamil recipe in Brewing Classic Styles, and fermented at a steady 72F and it turned out great. Very classic Dunkel flavor and aroma, an appropriate balance of esters.

I was worried after reading all the negative reviews of this yeast, but ended up being really happy with the beer. I served it at a gathering of friends and everyone enjoyed it.

So, the yeast may not be right for a Hefe, but I think it has it's place. Just my 0.02. PS this is the only time Ive used it, so don't have any other point of reference.

 

[hoppyroo]

For me I was trying to replicate a Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen using WB-06, and just couldn't. I tried cool fermenting, warm fermenting, and a combination of both. It just comes out too crisp and tart. The beer is good, quite drinkable, but it's not a Weihenstephaner clone in any way...as I can create with Wyeast 3068 almost spot on (by fermenting at 17C/62F). I want to try Munich Classic at some stage, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[idjeffp]

I've focused alot of my brewing energies on weizens and tried many yeast over the last 5 yrs - initially using 3068, but my best brews so far come from decoction mashes with a ferulic acid rest at 105 - 107 degF and using WY3638 fermented in the mid 60's. My last dunkel weizen was made with dark wheat and munich dark malts from Best Malz... was probably my best ever. So my wish would be for a dry 3638 yeast if I had a choice. As someone above mentioned, I too highly recommend purchasing Eric Warner's "German Wheat Beers" http://www.brewerspublications.com/books/german-wheat-beer/ book and using a ferulic acid rest for good clove/phenol development - much flavor to be gained there! For hefe's, Hefeweizen IV WLP380 has garnered my attention Hope this will help someone step outside the box and try something new.

... just my $0.02

 

[yeastylad]

For me I was trying to replicate a Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen using WB-06, and just couldn't. I tried cool fermenting, warm fermenting, and a combination of both. It just comes out too crisp and tart. The beer is good, quite drinkable, but it's not a Weihenstephaner clone in any way...as I can create with Wyeast 3068 almost spot on (by fermenting at 17C/62F). I want to try Munich Classic at some stage, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

It's not the same yeast I don't think. You want to use WY3068 or WLP300 I believe. It sounds like this Munich Classic might be a dried form of that Weihenstephaner yeast, but WB-06 isn't the same as far as I know.

 

[finsel]

Hi, my cent..:

I brewed a lot of weizen and trying a lot of yeasts, malts, temperatures, etc...
What I discovered so far is:

1) Wyeast Labs #3333 -> my best recipe at all... Great result .. but once I make it several years ago I just have this "great" remember...
OG 1049 / FG 1010. 50% wheat malt and 50% pilsner malt. for 5gal.
temp brew: 50oC / 62oC / 68oC.
temp. ferm:17oC (62,5F) for 17days.

2) White Labs #WLP300 -> good yeast but not amazing. Better then the next yeasts:

3) Mangrove Jack's #M20 -> I really tried to use this yeast in many ways but at end I decided to not use anymore this one.. never gave me a good beer. It is not for WeizenBier.

4) WB-06 -> Produced a small banana smell. The Flavor is nothing special.. just nothing.
Fermentated at 20oC (68F) (11days) Same ramp temp mash as 1# recipe.

5) Munich Lallemand - Fermentation at 18oC (64F). ->my first batch produced banana smell.. but I never be able to reproduce this smell again... Now I smell suor. What I can say is I SUPPOSE that this was caused by the possible differences:

- aeration, once I didn´t make this on the others recipes. Many people say that is not necessary aerate the green beer once is a dryed yeast.. but I have a serious doubt about this.
- Decoction , ".
- 1 pack per 10L.



Now I saw the Classic Munich.. I expect that this yeast solve my problem. let´s see.

Add. note: most of the final beer produce a little alcool taste. I Suppose that this is caused by the missed aeration or the mash temp ramps.

tks!
Frank