Dangers to watch out for while brewing?

[Zamial]

Well ... if you can your pre-made starters (in jars) and don't properly sterilize them with a pressure canner, they can get Botulism. Make a starter out of that, and pour it in your wort and .... I sure wouldn't want to drink your beer.

I disagree, Botulism can NOT live through the fermentation process. In the one and ONLY study that was sited on this very subject, they inoculated the wort with the botulism spores, let the botulism take hold AND then fermented UNBOILED wort.

Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation. Even if you are a real wort starter brewer AND a no chill/pitch the next day brewer, the botulism will not have grown in a large enough quantity to be dangerous in the volumes of liquid we use.

So, in a lab environment when someone intentionally inoculates to get botulism into a small amount of wort, lets it take hold, then ferments the unboiled wort it is possible.

Unfortunately, no brewer on earth makes beer this way... IF this was not true there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...

Dangers -
1. Using a glass carboy that breaks, slicing you open. Think it can't happen? Ask around HBT if anyone has gotten hurt.

2. Being careless with a propane burner. Carbon monoxide poisoning. Knocking over a kettle, when the burner is precariously perched on bricks.

3. Being careless with an Erhlenmayer flask and microwaving the starter, then shaking it and having hot liquid squirt you, burning you.

4. Being stupid with a kettle of boiling wort, after flame out, and trying to carry it.

^^ these are all good points!

 

[NervousDad]

I took my immersion chiller out of my boil kettle hooked it up to my faucet it sprayed scalding hot water all over my face and head. I now have a plate chiller

 

[ArcLight]

Its not that the bacteria (Clostridium Botulinum) will live, its that the Botulism toxin is already present, from the starter. It sounds like from their study, they did not let the infection go to far, they just made sure the spores were active and the bacteria reproducing.

>>Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation.

That's is different form letting 2 liters run its full course (over days/weeks/months) of Botulism infection, and toxin creation.

A 2 liter starter (full of toxin, not just trace amounts) in a 19 liter beer is 90% diluted.
Care to drink that?
Let us know how it works out for you.

I disagree, Botulism can NOT live through the fermentation process. In the one and ONLY study that was sited on this very subject, they inoculated the wort with the botulism spores, let the botulism take hold AND then fermented UNBOILED wort.

Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation. Even if you are a real wort starter brewer AND a no chill/pitch the next day brewer, the botulism will not have grown in a large enough quantity to be dangerous in the volumes of liquid we use.

So, in a lab environment when someone intentionally inoculates to get botulism into a small amount of wort, lets it take hold, then ferments the unboiled wort it is possible.

Unfortunately, no brewer on earth makes beer this way... IF this was not true there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...



^^ these are all good points!

 

[Zamial]

Its not that the bacteria (Clostridium Botulinum) will live, its that the Botulism toxin is already present, from the starter. It sounds like from their study, they did not let the infection go to far, they just made sure the spores were active and the bacteria reproducing.

>>Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation.

That's is different form letting 2 liters run its full course (over days/weeks/months) of Botulism infection, and toxin creation.

The problem is the yeast will eat the sugar the botulism needs...same food source. Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

Once again I ask, where is ANY proof that this HAS ever happened outside of a lab case study?

 

[ArcLight]

>>Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

yes they do. Many people add the entire contents of the starter to the wort after 24-26 hours.

I personally let it fully ferment and decant, but many directly add the entire contents of the starter.

 

[RoughandReadyRanch]

Liked for the Mallrats reference.

Say, would you like a chocolate covered pretzel? They're a little melty but damn are they exquisite.

 

[Zamial]

>>Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

yes they do. Many people add the entire contents of the starter to the wort after 24-26 hours.

I personally let it fully ferment and decant, but many directly add the entire contents of the starter.

Ok this is subjective... and is just a "they do/do not" argument with no way to really prove it so I will agree with you...

however, what we NEED to have is any real world proof that someone has contracted botulism from homemade beer, wine or mead has EVER happened, until you can provide this I am DONE discussing it. YOU are fear mongering. Your claim that someone can get botulism poisoning from homemade beer, wine or mead is silly, unprecedented and outlandish. I say one has the same odds of being trampled to death by a unicorn!

...there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...

or

Once again I ask, where is ANY proof that this HAS ever happened outside of a lab case study?

EDIT: "My friend knows a guy" is not proof. I am talking about documented cases or even A case from a credible source. Someone that is making prison toilet hootch also does not count as that is not considered home made beer, wine or mead; if it was, there would be a BJCP category for it. The reason you will NEVER be able to produce the required proof is because it does not exist.

 

[wSelwyn]

Someone that is making prison toilet hootch also does not count as that is not considered home made beer, wine or mead; if it was, there would be a BJCP category for it.

This made my day.

 

[VladOfTrub]

I'd shy away from brewing with Mercury, Prestone, radio-active waste, Fly Agaric, toad stools, turds, DDT, brightly colored pills and lead water pipes. Although, I believe that lead or Mercury might have some influence on ideas and questions on the forum. It's too bad Louis Carroll didn't mention a brewery in Alice Through the Looking Glass. Carlos Costaneda may have a recipe for Apache Shaman Ale.

 

[bsawlsville]

Sounds like one for Myth Busters.