Czechvar / Budweiser / Budvar B:Dark - Clone?

[chris000]

Just sitting and enjoying the evening sun and having a beer right now.
I'm always big on keeping good reference samples around, so when a friend gave me that one, I wasn't sure if that's not something more like a novelty; one sip and I will never have another one again, like so often before
However, I have to say, I like it.
Really would like to have a clone of that one, and a quick www. search didn't yield much.
Anyone a good idea where to start, I sniffed and tasted a few times now - no divine revelation, just an empty glass...

 

[beerlover77]

-#9 Weyerman's Bohemian Pils malt
-8oz Carapils
-38 IBU of Saaz hops in 3 additions
-90 min boil
-wyeast 2278

This should get close especially with a decotion mash
You can sub #1 of B0-pils for vienna too

Also check out:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/chechvar-aka-budvar-recipe-help.7650/

 

[chris000]

thanks, but I was looking for a dark lager clone - kind of the Schwarzbier version of the original Budweiser.
The hops should be Saaz, something like Vienna/Munich as the backbone plus a little bit of Cara and something roasted to get the colour significantly down, but without too much of the usual coffee flavours.

 

[brewgar]

Have you searched for Morana Lager? The recipe is out there. See

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/accidentally-in-prague.589026/

 

[beerlover77]

thanks, but I was looking for a dark lager clone - kind of the Schwarzbier version of the original Budweiser.
The hops should be Saaz, something like Vienna/Munich as the backbone plus a little bit of Cara and something roasted to get the colour significantly down, but without too much of the usual coffee flavours.

Sorry I missed the Dark part lol. Carafa Special II and III should get the darkness in. Just add it later in the mash for less roasty flavours

 

[Paulaner]

14°

77% Floor Malted Bohemian Pils
10% Munich Typ 2
10% Cara Munich Typ 2
3% Carafa Special Typ 3

2 hop additions
100% Saaz
FWH - 20 IBU's
30 Min - 14 IBU's

 

[chris000]

Have you searched for Morana Lager? The recipe is out there. See

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/accidentally-in-prague.589026/

that sounds like a good one ;-)
perhaps not a clone of the B:dark, but one I will try
thanks for sharing!

 

[chris000]

Sorry I missed the Dark part lol. Carafa Special II and III should get the darkness in. Just add it later in the mash for less roasty flavours

good point. I have never done that before, but this might be the one where I should try.

 

[chris000]

14°

77% Floor Malted Bohemian Pils
10% Munich Typ 2
10% Cara Munich Typ 2
3% Carafa Special Typ 3

2 hop additions
100% Saaz
FWH - 20 IBU's
30 Min - 14 IBU's

It's 4.8%vol and finishes fairly dry. 14P feels a bit high. Well, I guess I need to buy a few more...
What type of mash are you suggesting; I'm not set up for decotions.

 

[chris000]

Has anyone tried cold steeping the roasted portion of the grain bill?
If so, is 3x of the weight reasonable at room temperature over night?

 

[Paulaner]

1.054 is gonna be the average gravity for any Czech Tmavy beer you drink while there. I step mash it, but if you don't have the capability to do that shoot for around 148 F. If you want it to finish dry let it ferment out completely, if your looking for a little extra body and slight residual sweetness halt fermentation a few gravity points prior to it finishing. What exactly are you trying to achieve by cold steeping the roasted grains?

 

[chris000]

1.054 is gonna be the average gravity for any Czech Tmavy beer you drink while there. I step mash it, but if you don't have the capability to do that shoot for around 148 F. If you want it to finish dry let it ferment out completely, if your looking for a little extra body and slight residual sweetness halt fermentation a few gravity points prior to it finishing. What exactly are you trying to achieve by cold steeping the roasted grains?

Direct heat step mashes are fine, just not infusions/decotions, so I was thinking of 63C - 40min and 72 - 20min, but welcome to any other recommendation.
The last time I used Carafa III, I got some roast flavours, which were fine for the stout, but I certainly don't want them here.
I know that the "special" is supposed better for this purpose, but I read that cold steeping doesn't extract too much of the (roasted) flavours either. So, in case I cannot get it, cold steeping is my plan B.

 

[Paulaner]

63-64 for 40 min is perfect depending on your gelatinization temp of the malt, I would also hold the 72 rest for at least 45 min and throw in a mash out for 10 min at 78. If you don't want much roasted flavors go for carafa special 1 or 2 then, but if you don't want any of the roasted flavor why add carafa at all? You can use sinamar if it's only the color you're looking for.

 

[chris000]

63-64 for 40 min is perfect depending on your gelatinization temp of the malt, I would also hold the 72 rest for at least 45 min and throw in a mash out for 10 min at 78. If you don't want much roasted flavors go for carafa special 1 or 2 then, but if you don't want any of the roasted flavor why add carafa at all? You can use sinamar if it's only the color you're looking for.

thanks for the advice!
never used before, nor can I get Sinamar here. although, I could get some other non-malt food colour, but that kind of doesn't feel right.
Anyway, I'll better get a bottle tonight and see how much of the 'roast' is actually there. perhaps compare to some koestritzer and popular clone recipes to get an idea.