First let me start by saying I am no expert and this isn’t looking for financial advice. I’m just curious as to opinions. Crypto currencies aren’t really a new thing but definitely a hot topic in my work place ( I’m a business banker ). I’ve heard tons of talk lately about bitcoin and XRP aka Ripple. I’ve stated to educate myself and I find it interesting. At first I was skeptical about any form of currency I could not physically hold. I did some research and decided to make a small investment 2 weeks ago and it has done quite well. My investment has grown 4 fold. I truly think this is the way money is going in the future, the near future. Banks around the world are jumping onboard and slowly United States banks are coming onboard. Real life testing of moving currency across borders have been successful. My question is what do you all think? Is this the new way send money? Is this the new money? Is this just a fad and will crash and burn?
Crypto currency
- Thread starter klcramer
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
Well its certainly real enough that people are liquidating assets to get in to BTC. Same goes for etherium (ETH). Its also just as real as that fiat garbage we call fed reserve notes, its just that our garbage notes happen to be less garbage than other countries fiat garbage. Example, venezuela (not real socialism, surely) has a tanked currency and people are using bitcoins and other crypto currencies (even world of warcraft in-game gold, lol). Fad? Dunno. Bubble? Possible. I have an offline wallet with some crypto in it, unsure what to make of it at this point aside from just diversifying the investment portfolio.
Now moving the currency across borders for the moment isnt subject to FBAR, but that probably wont remain.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
I think there's a place for using crypto currency, but I'm not the type of person to need it.
That said, I don't think it's something worth investing in. People invest in gold because it has a steady value (and it's something you can hold). People invest in companies because they have a mission, a bottom line, and either make or loose money (it's fairly transparent). Crypto currency...you have something that isn't backed by anything other than whatever it's "worth" at any given time.
Call me old school, but I'll keep my money in other funds where I can still get 10-20% returns with limited downside. If I want the risk of crypto currency, I'd rather trade penny stocks for a day or two.
That said, I don't think it's something worth investing in. People invest in gold because it has a steady value (and it's something you can hold). People invest in companies because they have a mission, a bottom line, and either make or loose money (it's fairly transparent). Crypto currency...you have something that isn't backed by anything other than whatever it's "worth" at any given time.
Call me old school, but I'll keep my money in other funds where I can still get 10-20% returns with limited downside. If I want the risk of crypto currency, I'd rather trade penny stocks for a day or two.
mirthfuldragon
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much the definition of a bubble. NOTHING increases in value 400% in two weeks.
As much as my stodgy, boring low-cost index funds (and their fair to middling return investment) are based on the US's fiat currency, it is everyone's fiat currency. If the US dollar crashes, the world in general has gone Mad Max/Road Warrior, so I would have bigger problems to worry about than the health of my 401(k). And in that world, gold/silver/etc is not going to be worth all that much - who cares about heavy, soft gold when you are fighting off cannibals and post-apocalypse mutants?
All the click-bait articles are driving a hype, and if one decides to try to game the hype wave and make some money, more power to them. The more bubble-riders there are, the higher the price goes - simple rule of supply and demand. And when the bubble pops, well, . . .
Personally, I have not and will not touch it.
It's only getting a lot of attention lately, due to its stratospheric jump in value. But all along, Bitcoin has mostly been the domain of hackers, money launderers, etc. It's the Darknet of currency.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Yes, all of this.
The last 6+ months I've been getting non stop articles on Facebook about it and how great it is and all that. I keep hitting "See fewer of these" or whatever, but I keep getting more and more. I truly think it's paid advertising to drum up interest...and the public has bought into it.
You want to throw away some money on Bitcoin that you may never see again? I keep telling people - instead put it into an IRA, 401k, and Brokerage account. Leave it for 30 years...don't take it out; add to it whenever you can. Let the interest compound, and enjoy retirement. I'll continue doing that before I put anything into Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is just the middle-class lottery.
I don’t know. I can see potential from the banking industry side of this. I’m not discounting any of your opinions and I thank you for them. I agree it is kinda like a lottery or a gamble. I didn’t put more in than I am comfortable loosing but it’s going strong right now and I’m gonna ride it out for a while to see where it goes. Is it a bubble? At this moment I’d say most likely. In the long run can it make money? As of right now I think it will.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
What sort of potential do you see from the banking side?
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2008
- Messages
- 64,951
- Reaction score
- 16,516
I'd sell 1/2 (thus doubling your initial investment) and play around with the rest....
That is, if you can actually sell it.
That is, if you can actually sell it.
The thing with these kinds of blockbuster investments is that by the time it hits the motherlode, it's too late to get in on it. Watching Bitcoin hit 5 figures is exciting if you already have some, but if you are just investing now, you likely have missed out on the gain. Could it go up more? Possibly. Could it nose-dive? More likely. But too many people ignore the "buy low, sell high" advice. They see the skyrocket and want to jump on board.
CSB: My wife's cousin bought up a bunch of Enron stock in the '90s, and amassed close to a half mil at one point. Then the news about Enron's house of cards started filtering out. Her broker called up and urged her to sell it off ASAP. She decided to ride it out a while, thinking it would still climb. It didn't take long for her to lose half that amount and she finally sold it off. She blinked and lost a quarter mil.
If you're going to invest in volatile instruments, you'd better be ready to move fast. Even so, it could plummet in just a day, before you can react.
CSB: My wife's cousin bought up a bunch of Enron stock in the '90s, and amassed close to a half mil at one point. Then the news about Enron's house of cards started filtering out. Her broker called up and urged her to sell it off ASAP. She decided to ride it out a while, thinking it would still climb. It didn't take long for her to lose half that amount and she finally sold it off. She blinked and lost a quarter mil.
If you're going to invest in volatile instruments, you'd better be ready to move fast. Even so, it could plummet in just a day, before you can react.
With Ripple the transfer of funds is much quicker and from the reading I have done the fees attached are much reduced. If banks can save money they, just like any other business, absolutely will. The Ripple currency should be very easy to convert to any other currency. So let’s say you wanted to send money to Italy. Right now there are fees to turn your money to Italian current and fees to wire the money. Banks get charged fees and those fees are passed to the customer. There is time to process the transfer of up to an hour at times. With Ripple the fees for the bank should be less than a dollar. And the transaction time should be seconds.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
So the same as a federal reserve note. Except people, err computers, did have to "mine" the crypto whereas the fed just fires up the "presses." Full faith and credit of the US = trillions of dollars of debt.
Not saying this is a reason to jump into crypto.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
Is this one of your positions in crypto? What exchange are you using?
Again this is not financial advice but yes I am currently hold XRP. I used Coinbase to buy bitcoin then transferred it to binance to purchase XRP. Those are just the exchanges I like but there are many to choose from. I hold a couple other cryptos but they aren’t doing as well. Invest with Care.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
As much as I don't have much trust in the Reserve, at least there factors which back up the Fed's notes. Crypto is completely unfounded.
The most popular/notorious crypto-currency is responsible for an ever-increasing electricity consumption which is clearly unsustainable.
It's already burning the equivalent of 1% of what the entire USA uses and is forecast to eventually rise to the equal of the entire USA consumption.
Fascinating and rather disquieting all in one...
Cheers!
It's already burning the equivalent of 1% of what the entire USA uses and is forecast to eventually rise to the equal of the entire USA consumption.
Fascinating and rather disquieting all in one...
Cheers!
brewshki
Well-Known Member
To be fair, there is nothing "real" that backs up the reserve. Money is all based on promises and perception essentially. You and I both accept dollars as a form of payment and know we can then exchange them for goods and services. This is really all that is holding it all afloat. If enough people decide they "trust" cryptocurrencies, then they will absolutely become "equivalent" in terms of use to dollars. Because that is all our money is worth now, trust and promises.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
My teenage son told me about bitcoin a few years back, wished I had bought some, I could retire now. I'll go out on a limb and predict bitcoin in particular and all maybe all crypto currencies will be viewed as a threat by western governments fighting terrorist and criminal organizations. I believe that owning and trading bitcoin will be outlawed, OR someone will figure out how to hack it and create billions of more bitcoin and there will be a crash.
brewshki
Well-Known Member
From my understanding, and someone feel free to correct me, but I believe the whole bitcoin system has a limited number of coins that can exist. Whether or not someone can undermine this is another story that I am not educated enough to answer.
brewshki
Well-Known Member
I think this is an interesting point. I think it is really more of a comment on the reform banking needs to go through rather than pros towards a cryptocurrency. It is becoming increasingly common for banks to allow customers to cheaply and instantaneously transfer money. Wells Fargo, who I bank with, now offers a money transferring feature which is free and easy. As a cryptocurrency functions outside of traditional rules/governments, they can just set it up and make it happen. While this means it will happen sooner than traditional banks, you also have to deal with the risks of it not being nearly as regulated.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
NJ woman charged with using bitcoin to help ISIS:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-wom...ney-help-islamic-state-233524857--sector.html
Bitcoin will not last, too many crooks will attempt to use it for tax evasion, money laundering and other purposes.
Its not logical that governments will let this go on.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-wom...ney-help-islamic-state-233524857--sector.html
Bitcoin will not last, too many crooks will attempt to use it for tax evasion, money laundering and other purposes.
Its not logical that governments will let this go on.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
The EU central bank is demanding bitcoin be subject to it's regulatory powers to fight crime.
Yes, there is a cap on the number of coins.
brewshki
Well-Known Member
The fact that criminals can deal so easily in this currency is one of its biggest issues. While the EU will be able to help with regulations, it isn't all encompassing. this issue is one of the reason while I do not invest in them at all. Along with the fact investing them is essentially gambling.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
EU will find some way to euthanize the huge benefits of bitcoin and other crypto currencies in the name of combating crime. In reality it is too much of a threat to the Euro, so they will justify regulatory action on crypto to fight a small number of traders that do so with criminal intent.
brewshki
Well-Known Member
Small number maybe, but they are doing hugely terrible things with it.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
brewshki
Well-Known Member
If they are, they are getting far less press about it.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
- Joined
- May 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,300
- Reaction score
- 1,227
I'd sell 1/2 (thus doubling your initial investment) and play around with the rest....
That is, if you can actually sell it.
People need to wise up and realize what defines a truly useful currency. BitCoin doesn't qualify.
A truly useful currency requires a recognized value among a large community of people capable and willing to exchange that currency for commodity items. Does anyone know a third-party broker who can extract and verify a virtual wallet on a personal hard drive, if, or when, a large scale power outage occurs and shuts down e-commerce? Legal alternatives must exist in this instance ... unless, of course, the people who control BitCoin can guarantee unfettered access to the grid that so-called currency operates on. Human nature being what it is, well ... It doesn't exactly fire my optimism, but instead, feeds my cynicism.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
- Joined
- May 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,300
- Reaction score
- 1,227
Like feeding the poor, housing the homeless, and taking care of orphans? It makes me laugh to think so. In reality, they're making themselves rich at other peoples expense.
Avoid at your own risk.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
- Joined
- May 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,300
- Reaction score
- 1,227
It's not logical to expect governments NOT to co-opt a profitable venture they aren't in control of. I expect block chain currency credits to replace paper or metal exchanges at some point in the future.
triethylborane
Well-Known Member
People are likely engaging the same kind of transactions they do with our reserve bank notes. Regardless, to be doing great things with crypto transactions does not require feeding the homeless or taking in orphans.
"Making themselves rich" at other people's expense is exactly the way a free market economy works. People consent engage in mutually beneficial transactions (ie a contract) and those who repeatedly engage in these transactions are those who tend to be wealthier than those who less frequently engage in such transactions.
A lottery is a better example of people getting rich at other people's expense, but there is still consent. It is a tax on poverty and ignorance, though. Or a wealth redistribution scheme might be more in line with taking wealth without consent.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
- Joined
- May 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,300
- Reaction score
- 1,227
Anything convertible to US dollars and subject to IRS capital gains taxes can be regulated by the US government. BitCoin behaves exactly like an inflated, speculative exchange-traded stock. I wouldn't be surprised if the real Satoshi sold the intellectual rights and signed a non-disclosure agreement - effectively transferring ownership of certain block chain datum to government-affiliated investment firms. Banks and governments hate the idea of untraceable alternative currencies they can't control or profit from and I suspect at some point even Jamie Dimon will see the "wonders" of an alternative financial system.
I expect there will be regulations put into place and the government will figure out how to get as much as possible. Banks are interested in crypto currencies as I’ve stated before because it saves them money. I know there are people on both sides of this discussion (as there should be). I like what I see and read in the news. I hope more change is on the way.
Interesting Wired article on cryptocurrency. One big setback to widespread acceptance is scalability. The existing networks just cannot process any appreciable volumes of transactions. It's still a niche investment novelty at this time.
TBC
Well-Known Boozer!
So I picked up some litecoin on Coinbase a couple weeks ago at 130. I got nervous this morning and dumped it in the mid 200s. Regretting it now but I figured I’d take my money and run. I’m going to buy more litecoin and transfer it to Binance and buy XRP and I’m also going to take a flier on XVG. I read if you had invested $117 in XVG the beginning of the year you’d be a millionaire today.
I rode the litecoin wave and won. Now I’m going to try to catch 2 more waves. I’m still skeptical about crypto but the risk reward is way better than the stock market.
Bitcoin is plummeting, so wait and see if it drops some more. Maybe you'll get it at a bargain rate soon.
