"Craft Brews" vs BMC... Who is better?

[MaxStout]

Yooper's got a "fizzy yellow beer" recipe I might try next spring, to have on hand for summer drinking.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

BMC is exactly opposite of a Stout. it's not "BMCseason365", now is it? my logic is winner winner chicken dinner for me and not for you because I am the winner full of super awesomeness covered in the gravy.


stoutseason365.

 

[MaxStout]

BMC is exactly opposite of a Stout. it's not "BMCseason365", now is it? my logic is winner winner chicken dinner for me and not for you because I am the winner full of super awesomeness covered in the gravy.


stoutseason365.

The first rule of stoutseason365: you do not talk about stoutseason365.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

The first rule of stoutseason365: you do not talk about stoutseason365.

I'm Tyler Durden. I'm carved out of wood.

 

[1977Brewer]

I'm Tyler Durden. I'm carved out of wood.

I am Jacks inflamed spleen.

 

[max384]

1/4 keg of BMC is about 55 bucks. It's pretty tough to come lower than that when you're factoring in your equipment cost. Lagering devices and space it takes up while lagering, so on so forth.

1/6 keg of Allagash White is about 85 bucks. I can brew that for under 40 bucks with going with an extremely high quality yeast.

So you may be able to brew BMC clone for close to cost or a little cheaper, but it's not at a premium of savings. And if you enjoy brewing, why would you want to have the mechanical process that BMC uses to get consistent results? Wouldn't coming up with new ideas and tinkering be a much more satisfactory outcome to the process?

I don't factor in my equipment cost. My equipment is bought and paid for, as it's a hobby, not a business. If I'm doing a BMC clone, is costing me about $20 or less for a five gallon batch. Scaling the price up to 1/4 keg, and I'm still only paying half the price... But I don't brew to save money anyhow. I brew because I love to.

I have a four tap kegerator at home. I keep two taps filled with house beers that I've made many times before and that I know are good. The other two taps I experiment with, and I bottle on occasion too. IMO, nothing but experimenting can get boring too. It's nice to have a few house beers on tap. And it's nice to focus on consistency in known good recipes sometimes.

 

[hockeybrewer]

Thats one reason I love living less than an hour away from the Yuengling brewery. At tanzos weekly special I can get a case of cans for $16. There's a reason its Americas oldest brewery!

 

[slym2none]

Yuengling is about the only AAL I will drink. For one, it isn't urine-yellow, like Budpisswasser. Second, it actually has taste... unlike Budpisswasser.

 

[max384]

Thats one reason I love living less than an hour away from the Yuengling brewery. At tanzos weekly special I can get a case of cans for $16. There's a reason its Americas oldest brewery!

Yuengling is about the only AAL I will drink. For one, it isn't urine-yellow, like Budpisswasser. Second, it actually has taste... unlike Budpisswasser.

Yuengling lager is a beer I ALWAYS have in the fridge. I live about a half hour from the brewery, and take tours of the brewery about once a year or so.

In addition to their lager, they also brew a DELICIOUS porter. In fact, it's one of my favorite examples of a porter from any brewery. Their black and tan is good, as are most of their seasonals. For a big BMC-type brewery, they put out some good beer.

 

[max384]

I actually just decided to crack a Yuengling lager open, after typing this out. lol

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Equipment doesnt get amortized into batch cost 'cuz then our wives would have us all by the balls. I can brew a good lager for like $20/5gal easy. Or a nice mild for $12.

Only a couple thousand more batches and the brewery will have paid for itself

What exactly do you factor in to that cost? Grain and hops? Grain and hops and yeast? DME for the starter? Propane? Water costs? Chiller water costs? Sanitation & cleaning solutions consumed? O2 for oxygenation? Minerals for water treatment? Bottle caps? Etc?

I understand that you don't need to amortize equipment once capital is sunk. It's not a business in that sense. And I agree with folks that say that you don't need to account for putting a dollar value on your time.

But in a lot of cases, I think we subconsciously try to underestimate the amount of money that we spend on batches outside of the basic hops/grain number. I.e. for a 5 gallon lager batch, if you use dry yeast, you'll probably need 2 packs, so you're probably spending $8 right there. If you use liquid, you're spending $8 plus whatever you need in DME and yeast nutrient to make a starter. And for a lager, ideally making a big starter or stepping it up. That doesn't leave a great deal of room in the budget for your malt & hops!

A 30pk of Miller Lite at my local Bevmo is $17.99. That's about $28 for the equivalent of two cases / ~5 gal.

That's pretty cheap. I'd be hard pressed to brew some batches cheaper than that.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I don't factor in my equipment cost. My equipment is bought and paid for, as it's a hobby, not a business. If I'm doing a BMC clone, is costing me about $20 or less for a five gallon batch.

By that reasoning the beer is free too. Freeeeeeee Beeeeeeeer:rockin: All joking aside, I do feel like I am beating the system going off the grid with my beer, but really am I? I have to buy the malt, the yeast, the hops and in my case even the water (Phoenix water tastes awful), so its almost the same as buying it all put together already minus the fun and pride in making it.

PBR is cheap and it doesn't cost me 6 hours of my time on a Sunday. I also don't have to wait around for a minimum of a fortnight to drink it after I initiate the PBR process. PBR doesn't taste as good to me as New Belgium Imperial IPA or Deschutes Inversion IPA. Sometimes I want to sit on my back porch, watch the sunset with my beautiful wife and have a beer -- craft brew. Sometimes I want to swill a few and watch the D-Backs game -- BMC. I'm not going to notice the full bodied, tropical notes of a New Belgium Imperial IPA while Goldschmidt is ramming the ball down Kershaw's throat. Each has its place and even the bad ones help us to appreciate the good ones.

 

[ericbw]

When do we invoke Godwin's Law?

Patience. It will come.

 

[ericbw]

Honestly, I brew for street cred. It's not always better or cheaper than what you can buy. But it's always cooler.

 

[Bosh]

It's a lot easier to save money in Korea. For 5.5 gallons of ****ty local beer that'd cost about $60 if I've done my math right. For 5.5 gallons of decent imported IPA that'd be around $300.

**** yeah I save money homebrewing. Especially considering all I use is a plastic fermenter or two, a big dumpling steamer pot I got for free, my soup pot, hydrometer/thermometer and a big bag.

Can save enough money homebrewing to pay that **** off in just one batch with ease if I compare it to imported IPA and not too long compared to local **** beer.

Now if you factor in my time spent... Well doesn't look so good anymore, but even there I'm probably coming out ahead of the imported stuff I need to buy to get something really tasty.

 

[iijakii]

What exactly do you factor in to that cost? Grain and hops? Grain and hops and yeast? DME for the starter? Propane? Water costs? Chiller water costs? Sanitation & cleaning solutions consumed? O2 for oxygenation? Minerals for water treatment? Bottle caps? Etc?

I understand that you don't need to amortize equipment once capital is sunk. It's not a business in that sense. And I agree with folks that say that you don't need to account for putting a dollar value on your time.

But in a lot of cases, I think we subconsciously try to underestimate the amount of money that we spend on batches outside of the basic hops/grain number. I.e. for a 5 gallon lager batch, if you use dry yeast, you'll probably need 2 packs, so you're probably spending $8 right there. If you use liquid, you're spending $8 plus whatever you need in DME and yeast nutrient to make a starter. And for a lager, ideally making a big starter or stepping it up. That doesn't leave a great deal of room in the budget for your malt & hops!

A 30pk of Miller Lite at my local Bevmo is $17.99. That's about $28 for the equivalent of two cases / ~5 gal.

That's pretty cheap. I'd be hard pressed to brew some batches cheaper than that.

Willful ignorance on my end -- grain/hops/yeast are all I account for. Brewing salts, sanitizer, water, electricity, etc all unaccounted for.

Buy your base by the sack and try to reuse yeast and your costs drop dramatically. And hops by the pound. Ive started getting yeast from local brewpubs. Of course then I wind up buying a pint or two while there, once again not factoring that in

 

[GHBWNY]

It seems to me that most craft beer drinkers just don't like the taste of BMC. That's all well and good, but the "hate" is directed more toward their marketing than the actual product.

"Beechwood Aged" "Triple Hopped" "Cold Brewed" (which doesn't really make much sense to begin with) are terms that, while true, give the consumer an over hyped idea of what actually goes into the making of BMC. "This Miller is triple hopped. I've not heard of anyone else adding hops three times, so that must mean they're doing something different than everyone else. This must be a great example of a hoppy beer!" That kind of thing really gets to me because I've had family tell me that BM's Centennial Blonde recipe is way too bitter (I've not tried to give them any IPAs). BMC seems to be relying more on marketing than the quality of the actual product.

I get it, it's marketing, and they're in the business of making money. But at the same time, that kind of misinformation makes it harder for beer geeks to share what beer can actually be. Beer doesn't have to be a transparent, watery tasting carbonated beverage with a slight bitterness that you down after mowing the lawn. A lifelong BMC drinker might look at a cloudy hefeweizen and decide that it won't taste good, because beer shouldn't be cloudy, or beer served above 35F is probably going to suck because it isn't ice cold.

At least that's been my experience...

Bottom line: consumers who buy a product based on hype, get what they pay for.

 

[mattdee1]

For me, the "clean taste" and "consistency" of BMC are technical achievements strictly academic in nature, in that they have absolutely zero impact up or down on what matters to me in the real world; namely, how much I actually enjoy drinking the product(s) in question.

Could I brew a good AAL at home? I don't know, and I'm probably never going to try, because based on my personal situation, it's hard to imagine a more pointless exercise.

Let's do the math: relative to styles I enjoy, to brew an AAL, it's more time and care to brew a beer with reduced chance of success at meeting a target standard that I think sucks in the first place, and which I could buy examples of for cheap anywhere in the city in any quantity I want, almost any day of the year? Yeah, I'll pass.

 

[Peruvian802]

"Crafting" this product consistently must be very difficult since it's so 'light' and 'clean' tasting.

But who cares. I'd rather have a slice of this any day.

 

[iijakii]

I always see it purported that crafting light merican lagers is so hard. How? Same as any other beer, temp control and good pitching practices. I've brewed plenty of fantastic pilsners, I'm sure with some amylase I could extend that to a lite lager as well.

 

[Clarke]

I don't consider BMC craft, I call it industrialized, more machine than man.

 

[Homercidal]

New Homebrew name:

More Human Than Human

 

[kombat]

I always see it purported that crafting light merican lagers is so hard. How?

The exceptionally clean profile doesn't provide anywhere for flaws and off-flavours to be masked.

You can ferment a double IPA a little hot and no one is going to notice a few fusels or some green apple under all that bitterness and hops. But in a Light American Lager, even a little diacetyl is going to be unmistakable.

 

[iijakii]

The exceptionally clean profile doesn't provide anywhere for flaws and off-flavours to be masked.

You can ferment a double IPA a little hot and no one is going to notice a few fusels or some green apple under all that bitterness and hops. But in a Light American Lager, even a little diacetyl is going to be unmistakable.

Right, but with temperature controlled ferm. chamber, good yeast pitch, d-rest. Standard practice for any other lager.

 

[ericbw]

Right, but with temperature controlled ferm. chamber, good yeast pitch, d-rest. Standard practice for any other lager.

If you have perfect temp control, sanitization, yeast management, etc. you can do it. But it takes a lot of effort, knowledge, and skill to get perfect temp control, sanitization, yeast management, etc.

If you're making some other kind of beer that isn't based on the cleanest flavor, lightest color, etc. you can dry hop the crap out of it, or add some "character grains," or add some fruit or herbs or a piece of wood from St. Peter's cross*, then you can mask ANY flaw. Strong diacetyl in an imperial chocolate cherry stout becomes "a hint of butterscotch," and it's within the style and expectations.

THAT's why people say it's hard. Just like it's hard to keep a white shirt clean when you eat ribs. Red gingham plaid is your friend in that situation.

*or any other secret ingredient

 

[ericbw]

Incidentally, I am doing an unintentional D-rest right now on an Irish Red. I peeked in at the temperature (which was hanging nicely around 62-64, and I see it is up to about 68. I only try to carefully control the temp for the first week, then I stop worrying about it.

And a "hint of butterscotch" in Irish Red is ok!

 

[slym2none]

New Homebrew name:

More Human Than Human

Add some Robb Zombie art, and you win!

 

[bob1852]

I always see it purported that crafting light merican lagers is so hard. How?

The "there's no where for off flavors to hide" mantra is oft repeated by those that have never brewed a light American lager.

 

[iijakii]

@ericbw I agree to a point, but I think you're making brewing out to be a bit more grandiose than it is. Reading a yeast package that says to ferment 50-55 and keeping within that range with a fridge/freezer and temp controller isn't really requiring a bunch of skill or effort. Building a starter or pitching extra yeast isn't either.

Requires more effort perhaps, but anyone doing lagers should have this stuff anyways. And any craft brewery would for sure have temp controlled fermenters and good yeast pitching practices.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

The "there's no where for off flavors to hide" mantra is oft repeated by those that have never brewed a light American lager.

This.

@ericbw I agree to a point, but I think you're making brewing out to be a bit more grandiose than it is. Reading a yeast package that says to ferment 50-55 and keeping within that range with a fridge/freezer and temp controller isn't really requiring a bunch of skill or effort. Building a starter or pitching extra yeast isn't either.

Requires more effort perhaps, but anyone doing lagers should have this stuff anyways. And any craft brewery would for sure have temp controlled fermenters and good yeast pitching practices.

I don't personally think that the batch effort is all that impressive. What I find impressive is everything that takes place after fermentation. I also find it impressive that you could take a well cared for sample from say 6 months ago, and compare it to a batch put in the can yesterday and there is no discernible difference.

IMO, the real effort in macro brewing comes through in the blending process. And, IIUC, determining those ratios is still a very analogue process for AB/Inbev.

As for the craft/BMC which is better question. Neither is better. they both have their place and shine equally depending on circumstances. For me, BMC shines on really hot days either after a hard days work or while under the sun. Anything heavier just weighs me down and makes me sluggish.

But on a cool crisp night, with a fire going, give me a rich stout or a thick Barleywine.