Craft Beer Price Sticker Shock!

[day_trippr]

This thread inspired me to do a bit o' math around my most expensive brew - a 1.110 triple chocolate double imperial honey stout (yes, it's a mouthful )
Beersmith tells me it costs $123 for 11 gallons, which works out to $1.04 per 12 ounce pour.

That kind of math disinclines me to go pub hopping

 

[Sailingeric]

This thread inspired me to do a bit o' math around my most expensive brew - a 1.110 triple chocolate double imperial honey stout (yes, it's a mouthful )
Beersmith tells me it costs $123 for 11 gallons, which works out to $1.04 per 12 ounce pour.

That kind of math disinclines me to go pub hopping

I was about to say something similar. My most expensive beer I have made so far still comes in about a $1 a pint even adding in cost of the propane.

 

[Tommydee]

I think it's a good thing.

SWMBO: Why did you spend $1200 the last 2 months on beer stuff, and take over half the basement?
Tom: I'm making craft beer. It sells for $10 per 16 oz can. Each of these batches is therefore worth $400. So after about 4 batches including ingredients, this equipment is paid for! Honey, do you really want me to spend $10 per can for a beer I can make myself?

 

[Owly055]

If I brewed beer commercially and could sell any of it for $10 a can, I wouldn't hesitate. It's pure capitalism in its finest form. It's that kind of aggressiveness that stimulates others to brew the same beer more cheaply. It will pay the brewery employees. It'll help buy new equipment.

It's the exact way our American system was meant to work. You don't have to buy expensive products, that's your choice, but you really shouldn't knock the system unless you want to do away with the free market (which would be wholly un-American).

I don't hear anybody "knocking the system", I hear people outraged at the price of craft beers, who are brewing their own at a tiny fraction of the cost. I do happen to be in a position to know that my cost of materials currently is approximately double that of the local microbrewery. I'm not obligated to buy microbrews, and I refuse to support that kind of pricing. In the recent spell of grossly inflated beef prices, I just didn't buy beef, and none of my friends and customers, nearly all of whom are beef ranchers took issue with that......... I made no secret of the fact that I was priced out of the market.
The fad has taken off, and as with all fads, I jumped ship when it became a "fad". I don't begrudge them their success, some of them are my friends. I supported them until they no longer needed my support as evidenced by the price increases.

The most pricey microbrew I ever bought was a barrel aged sour at $18 for a single bottle.......... A gift.

H.W.

 

[passedpawn]

I don't hear anybody "knocking the system", I hear people outraged at the price of craft beers, who are brewing their own at a tiny fraction of the cost.

Outraged? Some people just want to be outraged. Their pasttime when not working is to exhibit their outrage on the world. It's a sign of the times.

Regarding "knocking the system", you're right. Nobody directly condemned the free market system, the system that encourages sellers to set prices as high as the market will bear.

That's "the system" Owly. Are you for it or against it? A simple yes or no would speak volumes.

 

[McGarnigle]

Outraged? Some people just want to be outraged. Their pasttime when not working is to exhibit their outrage on the world. It's a sign of the times.

Regarding "knocking the system", you're right. Nobody directly condemned the free market system, the system that encourages sellers to set prices as high as the market will bear.

That's "the system" Owly. Are you for it or against it? A simple yes or no would speak volumes.

Part of the way the system works is by drawing attention to prices and quality of products on the market. The free market assumes informed consumers.

AFAIK, no one is calling for price ceilings to be implemented. They're just griping about prices. Someone gripes about movies today ("Fifty Shades Darker sucks, don't waste your money!") he's not undercutting the free market.

 

[passedpawn]

Part of the way the system works is by drawing attention to prices and quality of products on the market. The free market assumes informed consumers.

AFAIK, no one is calling for price ceilings to be implemented. They're just griping about prices. Someone gripes about movies today ("Fifty Shades Darker sucks, don't waste your money!") he's not undercutting the free market.

Well OK, maybe griping IS part of the system. I guess that's a good point. But ultimately, the only feedback is sales. Griping can affect that indirectly, but in this case, probably not. The best feedback is to not buy product.

 

[McGarnigle]

Well OK, maybe griping IS part of the system. I guess that's a good point. But ultimately, the only feedback is sales. Griping can affect that indirectly, but in this case, probably not. The best feedback is to not buy product.

I don't disagree with your general point, and posted something sympathetic to the cost increase (the price of barley is way up). Brewpubs probably don't care if a bunch of homebrewers think they're overpriced. They don't need to sell to everyone.

 

[BigCrazyAl]

I'll play devil's advocate

Keep in mind, a brewery is a business. They want to make a profit and return their investment within the first few years of operation. Businesses cost a lot to run and that's reflected in the cost of the products. (Like cooking a filet at home will save around $20 a plate) I'm not stoked to pay $8+ for a 6 pack but I like having the selection to choose from. Margins are small for these guys so they have to make money somewhere.

 

[Transamguy77]

There is a flip side to this, there are the craft beer lovers out there that don't know home brewing exists or have some excuse as to why they won't try it and they will spend all that money on different beers then wear it like a badge of honor, and then tell you how awesome the beer was.

I completely agree that the prices are outrageous but we also know what the prices of ingredients are and what goes into a batch of beer. I can't tell you how many people will tell me that they would rather buy it than make it.

My thoughts are the same as what was posted already, due to crazy high prices I only buy craft beer if I'm out for dinner (which isn't that often) otherwise I just drink what I brew.

 

[mongoose33]

There is a flip side to this, there are the craft beer lovers out there that don't know home brewing exists or have some excuse as to why they won't try it and they will spend all that money on different beers then wear it like a badge of honor, and then tell you how awesome the beer was.

I know those types--beer snobs!

I completely agree that the prices are outrageous but we also know what the prices of ingredients are and what goes into a batch of beer. I can't tell you how many people will tell me that they would rather buy it than make it.

I have a beer aficionado friend, not a beer snob, but he likes trying different beers and recording them on ratebeer. I don't know how many different beers he's tried in his life, but it's probably 10 times what I have tried.

He has no interest whatsoever in brewing his own. He's not a do-it-yourself type, not with brewing, nor with about anything else. He's rather buy it.

My thoughts are the same as what was posted already, due to crazy high prices I only buy craft beer if I'm out for dinner (which isn't that often) otherwise I just drink what I brew.

I haven't paid for a six-pack in over 15 months. I do buy beer at the local watering hole, or when out to dinner, but I haven't bought anything to consume at home. Why should I when I'm brewing beer for well under $1 a pint--and I like my own better!

 

[GPP33]

I have to be honest, there's a sickining air of entitlement in this thread. Craft brewers are a business and deserve (like any other business) to price their product at market value and make a fair profit for their efforts and the risks they are taking. If they price higher than the market will sustain they'll loose business and either adjust or go under due to a lack of sales. Nothing I have heard in this thread is outrageous price wise. A business isn't about "breaking even" it's about coming out ahead. This is after all their day job, I assume you want to do better than just breaking even in your day job?

For reference... brewing 15 gallons of a home brew would probably cost me on average $90 in ingredients. It'd also take me about 8 hours including all prep and clean up. The cost of doing business isn't cheap so let's say my "shop rate" is $100 per hour (which is more than reasonable). My keg now costs $890. Sure, my ingredients are more expensive and I don't have the economy of scale on my side but I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars of capital, rent, employees counting on me, planning for future capital investments and most likely interest to pay my investors. Running a brewery ain't cheap! If you don't like the costs brew your own but don't chastise those trying to make a living supplying an in demand product to those who don't have the time,ability or desire to brew their own.

 

[CU_tony]

I am from CLT and visit this brewery almost every week (new brew every Tuesday). I have been frequenting them for 3 years now and have only noticed a slight price increase after they moved to their new facility.
Their beers are still priced 5-6$ which I find very reasonable and comparable to bar prices around here.

The example of $40 for a 4-pack is a RIS aged 1.5 years in bourbon barrels. You would pay $5 for a half pint of this, so $10 for a 16oz can makes sense.
I bought it, it's delicious and chocolaty and marshmallowy, and tasty.
16oz is way too large a serving of this particular beer IMO, but maybe they were intending for you to share??

Anywhos that is the only beer of theirs that is radically priced and it did take a significant time to make it and it is significantly special, at least to me!

 

[MaryB]

While I can brew my "house" ale for under 30 cents a pint if I use 2 row and under 50 cents if I use Golden Promise(recipe works with both, Golden Promise comes out a tad sweeter and smoother) I do not have building overhead, employees to pay, insurance(both business and health plans for the employees), taxes on what I produce...

So if I pay $6-8 for a beer at the only local brew pub I do not mind because their overhead is way higher than mine brewing in my garage!

 

[max384]

And what is up with the price of the larger bomber bottles? They seem to average around $15 per bottle, with prices regularly $20++. That's insane, and outside of maybe some several-year aged sours, just simply isn't justifiable. I don't buy them. If people are buying, more power to the brewery to keep selling them, but I'm hoping everyone begins snubbing their noses at these ridiculously high prices, and the cost will come down.

Regardless, I'm not affected much, since I drink 90%+ my own beers, and sprinkle commercial ones in on occasion.

 

[jbunton]

One thing I will say as a homebrewer in the process of going pro is I do agree some of the prices are becoming quite high. However the costs associated with doing business in this industry are not low at all, at least here in Ontario, Canada. If you factor in the materials, equipment, upkeep, utilities, taxes, fees, licencing, insurance, and everything else even at a somewhat above average price there is not as much left as you'd think.

 

[Special Hops]

If I brewed beer commercially and could sell any of it for $10 a can, I wouldn't hesitate. It's pure capitalism in its finest form. It's that kind of aggressiveness that stimulates others to brew the same beer more cheaply. It will pay the brewery employees. It'll help buy new equipment.

It's the exact way our American system was meant to work. You don't have to buy expensive products, that's your choice, but you really shouldn't knock the system unless you want to do away with the free market (which would be wholly un-American).

Well yes and no. I get the gist of what you are saying. But the alcohol distribution system in most states is not very free market. It is tightly controlled by distributors and and/or the state liquor boards. Free market would mean you go go into any brewery and buy beer on the spot without limitations - for whatever price is agreed by the brewery and yourself. Lot's of state prohibit this or highly regulate it.

 

[max384]

Well yes and no. I get the gist of what you are saying. But the alcohol distribution system in most states is not very free market. It is tightly controlled by distributors and and/or the state liquor boards. Free market would mean you go go into any brewery and buy beer on the spot without limitations - for whatever price is agreed by the brewery and yourself. Lot's of state prohibit this or highly regulate it.

Although there are heavy restrictions on alcohol sale and distribution, the laws of supply and demand, the cornerstone of a free market, are still at work.

 

[bobeer]

I'd love to support my local breweries but they're much more expensive than a lot of stuff that comes from outside the state; which never has made sense to me... $20+ growlers, $12-20 six packs, $15-30 bombers. Crazy talk. Some of the local brew pubs are more inline with my expectations and come in at around $5.50-6.50 a pint which I have no issue paying. Once you include a tip it goes up about $1 a beer. It's always been expensive to drink out though...

I lived in Chico, Ca for a spring/summer about 11 years ago and to get a 6er of SNPA was cheaper than it was to buy a cheap lunch somewhere. I'm talking about $5-6 six packs! Pints of SN at the bar were usually around $3. Yes, Chico is a small college town so prices are a bit cheaper for booze so you have to remember that. It's great when it's cheaper to drink the local poison than it is to eat!

I get sucked into the commercial beer game all the time... it just subtracts from the funds I have to brew with so I try to limit my urges. It is weird to go to the store and not buy beer though, haha. I just have to remember I can brew better beer, and beer tailored to my personal tastes, for a bit cheaper than I can buy it for. There's much more satisfaction in pulling a pint of my own beer over pulling a can or bottle out of the fridge.

The part of the commercial beer game I don't get is waiting in line for hours to get some kind of "special" beer. Maybe it's because, since I've brewed for a while, I get what goes into a beer and I don't really ever see what makes a beer so special that I couldn't brew it myself or to not know what they did to get the beer to taste the way it does. Take the new NE IPA trend... It's just a cloudy beer with a TON of hops and a soft mouthfeel. I've made several beers that people have thought were straight out of NE. IDK, I'm not trying to pee on anyone's parade or down well made NE style beer but I just don't get the "lets take the whole day and go pay a ridiculous amount for a beer that I can only buy 1 sixer of." trend.
Cooling out a the house and brewing with some friends while playing music and smoking some meat beats any bar, pub, brewery, or limited edition beer, I'd go to. Here's to another great reason to homebrew!

 

[pepindavid]

I ever go pro (not that I have any actual plan, but hey, I'm a dreamer), I would love to do it as a "worker cooperative". The idea would be for all employees should have a decent pay, to make enough "profit" to invest, get better results, grow reasonably, etc., while maintaining prices as low as possible to sustain everything.

The price point would not be driven by "supply and demand" (whatever the market is willing to pay), but by other economic forces. Maybe the price point to sustain all this would be very close to these crazy prices we're seeing (thanks in part to all the regulation and taxes).

Of course, that's not "pure capitalism", and it's not "american" (that is debatable, but I don't care, I'm not an American). I'm an anarchist bastard. Accumulation of capital for the sake of accumulating capital has been a tremendous creation force since 1500; I believe it has now become an even worse destruction force, and it is time to envision another "production mode" (ok, I'm stepping down from my soap box).

 

[mongoose33]

This discussion might have a different tenor if it weren't dominated by home brewers--which naturally it must be. What if we had others who don't brew but who like craft brew? Would the conclusions about high prices be the same?

I ask because there's a phenomenon whereby often people attribute quality to items that cost a lot. We've been taught this through advertising since birth (think Rolex--it tells time, but that's not what you're buying when you purchase one. You're purchasing a status symbol, not a watch).

Is a beer that costs more a better beer? It may not be that for us, but what about the general public?

******************

I once built and sold custom-built golf clubs. Made a major marketing mistake in that I only charged $20 above the cost of the components for each club. I discovered I should have charged $300 a set more than I did, because buyers wanted a story to go along w/ the clubs. Yes, they were terrific clubs as I had them matched in a way commercial clubs are never matched. Swingweight-matched, moment of inertia-matched, frequency-matched.

But nobody wanted to pull a Mongoose club from their bag--they wanted to pull a Titleist, Ping, Taylor-made, whatever. What I needed to do was charge them more (think Rolex), and give them a story to go with it: "Well, your clubs are off-the-rack; mine are individually matched to a specific specification based on what works best for me, frequency-matched and MOI-matched. That's why they cost as much as they do!"

Lesson learned. I think there's something similar in beer, something akin to a Placebo Effect. This beer is expensive, ergo it must be good, ergo, I will enjoy it.

I've had expensive beers that taste like crap and I'll tell you so. But then, I'm more about the taste and less about the Placebo.

**************

Edited to add: I'd love to do an exbeeriment where respondents would rate the taste of a beer, and prior to tasting they'd be told the beer cost either $3 a pint or $8 a pint, and see if there was a difference in perceived taste. I'll bet there would be.

 

[b-boy]

I can honestly say that I never look at the price when I'm in a brew pub. I just order what I want, hand them a $20, and get some change. I was in a local place Sunday night. I can't tell you what I paid for a pint. I probably should start paying attention to that.

When I'm in a beer store, however, I do look at the prices. I paid $11.99 for a 6-pack of local beer the other day. I thought that was a little high. It seems like I'm dropping $30-$40 every time I walk into a beer store, and I usually leave with a couple of 6-packs.

 

[IslandLizard]

This discussion might have a different tenor if it weren't dominated by home brewers--which naturally it must be. What if we had others who don't brew but who like craft brew? Would the conclusions about high prices be the same?

I ask because there's a phenomenon whereby often people attribute quality to items that cost a lot. We've been taught this through advertising since birth (think Rolex--it tells time, but that's not what you're buying when you purchase one. You're purchasing a status symbol, not a watch).

Is a beer that costs more a better beer? It may not be that for us, but what about the general public?

******************

I once built and sold custom-built golf clubs. Made a major marketing mistake in that I only charged $20 above the cost of the components for each club. I discovered I should have charged $300 a set more than I did, because buyers wanted a story to go along w/ the clubs. Yes, they were terrific clubs as I had them matched in a way commercial clubs are never matched. Swingweight-matched, moment of inertia-matched, frequency-matched.

But nobody wanted to pull a Mongoose club from their bag--they wanted to pull a Titleist, Ping, Taylor-made, whatever. What I needed to do was charge them more (think Rolex), and give them a story to go with it: "Well, your clubs are off-the-rack; mine are individually matched to a specific specification based on what works best for me, frequency-matched and MOI-matched. That's why they cost as much as they do!"

Lesson learned. I think there's something similar in beer, something akin to a Placebo Effect. This beer is expensive, ergo it must be good, ergo, I will enjoy it.

I've had expensive beers that taste like crap and I'll tell you so. But then, I'm more about the taste and less about the Placebo.

**************

Edited to add: I'd love to do an exbeeriment where respondents would rate the taste of a beer, and prior to tasting they'd be told the beer cost either $3 a pint or $8 a pint, and see if there was a difference in perceived taste. I'll bet there would be.

I have to second this. Golf clubs included.

I've made similar mistakes, not upping the price enough for making it more exclusive. I guess we were raised the right way and (too) slowly caught on with how real life apparently works.

 

[catdaddy66]

I once said that I wouldn't pay prices for beer that I considered exorbinant. That was after reading about a 22oz bomber that was sold for $17.

A month ago the best local brewer in Columbia (Conquest Brewing) had a release party for their double imperial stout named 'The Finisher', which I have yet to get in tbe 4 years they have been open.

Got in line and got the counter in about 30 minutes. Asked for two standard bottles (there were barrel aged and bourbon flavored varieties also) and they said "That's $44 please..."

I paused for about 3 seconds and said (to myself lol) "eff it, you only live once!"

 

[mongoose33]

I once said that I wouldn't pay prices for beer that I considered exorbinant. That was after reading about a 22oz bomber that was sold for $17.

A month ago the best local brewer in Columbia (Conquest Brewing) had a release party for their double imperial stout named 'The Finisher', which I have yet to get in tbe 4 years they have been open.

Got in line and got the counter in about 30 minutes. Asked for two standard bottles (there were barrel aged and bourbon flavored varieties also) and they said "That's $44 please..."

I paused for about 3 seconds and said (to myself lol) "eff it, you only live once!"

I can't imagine how good something would have to taste to make it worth $22 a bottle. Was it worth it?

This all reminds me of what people pay to play a famous course like Pebble Beach. $500 or more for a single round of golf. What on earth makes it worth that, other than a few famous golfers doing some good shots there?

Now, would I pay $500 to play Augusta National? Probably. But not without a few moments of regret.

Disclosure: I'm an empty-nester so I can afford to play Pebble Beach. I just can't imagine having such a good time doing it that I wouldn't end up regretting it.

PS: To each his/her own. Just like in beer, you like what you like and if you like playing Pebble, more power to you.

 

[catdaddy66]

I can't imagine how good something would have to taste to make it worth $22 a bottle. Was it worth it?

This all reminds me of what people pay to play a famous course like Pebble Beach. $500 or more for a single round of golf. What on earth makes it worth that, other than a few famous golfers doing some good shots there?

Now, would I pay $500 to play Augusta National? Probably. But not without a few moments of regret.

Disclosure: I'm an empty-nester so I can afford to play Pebble Beach. I just can't imagine having such a good time doing it that I wouldn't end up regretting it.

PS: To each his/her own. Just like in beer, you like what you like and if you like playing Pebble, more power to you.

Haven't tried it yet lol! Waiting for my birthday in a couple of weeks...

 

[kristiismean]

Some of these prices are getting out of hand, but Chicago seems to be self regulating, to a point.

The biggest offender unfortunately makes it feel like it's a privilege to pay $17.99 for a 6 pack among it's $10.99 peers. It's nice to see a few stores Dropping 3 floyd's because of this. 3 Floyds is also trying to increase production, so hopefully that works out.

Other than 3 floyds, there are not really any other major beers that gouge. I am not talking about limited releases, etc, like half-acre double daisy, Bells hopslam (or which some stores gouge, it's a 17.99 msrp and the stores sell it for 23+) or others.

New Glarus in WI on the other hand is NOT the place to buy their packaged stuff. Yes, they have their limited stuff in stock, but they charge full MSRP for everything and it's cheaper to get it at the gas station down the street. I did not make it there in 2016 (but have 2015\2014\2013\2012 etc) and supposedly per an employee, they have to charge MSRP and cannot charge less than their MSRP since they set the MSRP. but stores can since they are not the producer. weird...

 

[cegan09]

I was about to say something similar. My most expensive beer I have made so far still comes in about a $1 a pint even adding in cost of the propane.

your math is broken. Sure, that's the ingredient cost. But add in the cost of your time to make it, from gathering ingredients through final packaging. And the cost of the space you brew in. and the equipment. Sure, on a hobby you don't care, but when you run a business you sure as hell do. When you buy beer you aren't just paying for the ingredients, you're paying for their time, rent, utilities, etc etc. It all adds up.

Beer prices hike because people will pay for it. I don't like paying a ton, but I will on occasion because of the event it presents. I was at Hill Farmstead with my girlfriend and they had bottles of Double Barrel Damon for on site consumption. Stout that had sat in bourbon barrels for 2 years and port barrels for 2 years. It was $35/bottle. We got one. Was it worth it? Hell yes. The beer was honestly fantastic, and it was a great day in the middle of a snow storm in Vt, and we got to sit and enjoy the area for a long while with a great beer. Would I pay $35/bottle all the time? Not a chance. But for the right situation, why not.

 

[beernutz]

Back when I used to buy lots of different beers to try new styles, I started using a 6 pack calculator to get a better idea of how much I was paying per oz. Bombers really shocked me.
A $12 bomber = the equivalent of a $39.27 a six pack.
I think some of those 5oz bottles were even more ridiculous.

I went to a beer tasting at my local liquor store and among what they were serving was some Evil Twin barrel aged stout. My friend on the way out picked up a bomber without a price tag and was greeted with, "that will be $22 plus tax" (10% here) for a total of $24.20. $1 per ounce. To his credit he didn't blink and handed over his credit card.

I OTOH would have carefully replaced the bomber back in the fridge.

 

[b-boy]

The biggest offender unfortunately makes it feel like it's a privilege to pay $17.99 for a 6 pack among it's $10.99 peers. It's nice to see a few stores Dropping 3 floyd's because of this. 3 Floyds is also trying to increase production, so hopefully that works out.

Other than 3 floyds, there are not really any other major beers that gouge. I am not talking about limited releases, etc, like half-acre double daisy, Bells hopslam (or which some stores gouge, it's a 17.99 msrp and the stores sell it for 23+) or others.

Are you sure its 3 Floyds doing the gouging? I thought their prices at the brewery were pretty decent. I got several cases of ZD cheaper than at the local stores.