Saison Cottage House Saison

[azscoob]

Not my intention to double-post and perhaps I could make a separate thread for this question, but I'll start here anyways. Since I now know how to accurately hit my pre-boil gravity by either adding more water to dilute it and then adjust the hops accordingly, or on the flip side boil down more to concentrate the wort, I'm trying to figure out in my head how to properly FWH. I would be hesitant to add them as I am sparging because I may need to boil longer to get the desired pre-boil gravity. Anyone how to to do this properly?

It's easy, don't fret over your preboil gravity as much, I use a refractometer to check post boil gravity, I check at 45 minutes into the boil, and adjust my burner a tad to boil faster or slower to hit my target gravity, I might be a tad over or under my volume but my gravity is usually spot on.

So to FWH, just toss in the hops before you boil, and stress over gravity at the midpoint, or a bit later to be sure you are on target.

 

[BrunDog]

As I mentioned earlier, used 3724 and let it ferment in my 87-90 degree garage for two full months. Yes, that's right - over 8 weeks!! It was still giving off the occasional bubble but I ran out of patience and kegged it. Finished at about 1.004 so I probably could have got lower with another week or two. Two weeks prior it was 1.010, so that's about the rate slowing down. But like I said, I was ready for this thing to be done even though the yeast weren't.

So the description on 3724 seems correct. Time, temp, and patience are required!

Interesting beer. Color / opacity is on point. Big lacey head. And it's a pepper bomb! Good fruit, works very well with food. Still needs more carb to match the style and a bit of softening in the keg. I didn't like the sample so much but cold and carbed it's very drinkable.

-BD

 

[azscoob]

As I mentioned earlier, used 3724 and let it ferment in my 87-90 degree garage for two full months. Yes, that's right - over 8 weeks!! It was still giving off the occasional bubble but I ran out of patience and kegged it. Finished at about 1.004 so I probably could have got lower with another week or two. Two weeks prior it was 1.010, so that's about the rate slowing down. But like I said, I was ready for this thing to be done even though the yeast weren't.

So the description on 3724 seems correct. Time, temp, and patience are required!

Interesting beer. Color / opacity is on point. Big lacey head. And it's a pepper bomb! Good fruit, works very well with food. Still needs more carb to match the style and a bit of softening in the keg. I didn't like the sample so much but cold and carbed it's very drinkable.

-BD

That's awesome! I love this style with food, it's at its best along side a plate of just about anything!

 

[Rhaop]

Finally found the time to brew another batch.



I did a minimash with 2-row, c-60 and flaked oats, then used LME to make up the rest. My mini mash was more effiient than I was aiming for, so my OG is 1.070 Unfortunately I wasn't very organized and left out some hops at the end of the boil Hopefully this doesn't effect me too bad!



Pitched my old slurry in the low 60's and I will let the 3711 do its thing

Left out hops? I wouldn't worry about such things that beer will have lots of flavor [emoji482]

 

[stever1000]

My old slurry is chewing through the sugar like a beast, my bucket lid is domed and I'm glad I have a blow off tube. Sitting at 65/66 and ill raise it over the next week to the low 70's

 

[backsideslash]

just brewed this up today, thanks for the recipe! i added a little more honey and a little honey malt (saw someone else do this earlier in the thread) to fit in with the theme of a contest i'll be entering it into. definitely a lot of good information to read through on this thread.

 

[Zippox]

Well I brewed this yesterday...

Accidentally dropped half of the grain on the dirty garage floor when stirring it into my mash. I was pissed so I just used my hands and started picking it up off the ground and throwing it into the mash. I tried not to scrape the ground floor but I didn't really care at that point.

I ran out of my RO water and of course I didn't hit the pre-boil gravity I was going for. So I added some DME and with the extra water I picked up I was back to where I wanted.

I split the 11 gallons into two batches. Pitched 3711 in one and 3724 in the other. I tasted the yeast starters and 3724 was similar in taste to commercial saisons that I've tried that have like a coriander taste (or something like that). I personally am not a huge fan of that. The 3711 had a far milder flavor on that and I think I'll prefer that over the 3724.

Hopefully I didn't pick up too many dead crickets and dirt from the garage floor...

 

[azscoob]

just brewed this up today, thanks for the recipe! i added a little more honey and a little honey malt (saw someone else do this earlier in the thread) to fit in with the theme of a contest i'll be entering it into. definitely a lot of good information to read through on this thread.

I will toast to your upcoming victory!

 

[azscoob]

Well I brewed this yesterday...

Accidentally dropped half of the grain on the dirty garage floor when stirring it into my mash. I was pissed so I just used my hands and started picking it up off the ground and throwing it into the mash. I tried not to scrape the ground floor but I didn't really care at that point.

I ran out of my RO water and of course I didn't hit the pre-boil gravity I was going for. So I added some DME and with the extra water I picked up I was back to where I wanted.

I split the 11 gallons into two batches. Pitched 3711 in one and 3724 in the other. I tasted the yeast starters and 3724 was similar in taste to commercial saisons that I've tried that have like a coriander taste (or something like that). I personally am not a huge fan of that. The 3711 had a far milder flavor on that and I think I'll prefer that over the 3724.

Hopefully I didn't pick up too many dead crickets and dirt from the garage floor...

Sometimes you just have to take a step back and start over on the garage floor and work your way back to the top!

 

[tgmartin000]

Well I brewed this yesterday...

Accidentally dropped half of the grain on the dirty garage floor when stirring it into my mash. I was pissed so I just used my hands and started picking it up off the ground and throwing it into the mash. I tried not to scrape the ground floor but I didn't really care at that point.

I ran out of my RO water and of course I didn't hit the pre-boil gravity I was going for. So I added some DME and with the extra water I picked up I was back to where I wanted.

I split the 11 gallons into two batches. Pitched 3711 in one and 3724 in the other. I tasted the yeast starters and 3724 was similar in taste to commercial saisons that I've tried that have like a coriander taste (or something like that). I personally am not a huge fan of that. The 3711 had a far milder flavor on that and I think I'll prefer that over the 3724.

Hopefully I didn't pick up too many dead crickets and dirt from the garage floor...

Hey, that's just more flavor! Keep in mind this is a saison, after all!

 

[Zippox]

Hey, that's just more flavor! Keep in mind this is a saison, after all!

heh, yeah there's no doubt there will be extra "funk"

 

[Madmannvan]

Pulled my first glass of this tonight, it's only been in the kegorator 2 days but I couldn't wait any longer. Very cloudy but I'm sure it will clear a bit more over the next week or two. I use some yeast i cultured from grapes I found growing along the beach on Gabriola Island in British Columbia Canada. I tested the yeast with some DME In a starter, then a half gallon of wort from a batch of ipa, and after tasting both of those I couldn't help but think it would work great in a farmhouse ale and its amazing! ABV is only 6.5% but the flavor is great and come on wild yeast in a farmhouse ale I'm pretty stoked.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448426057.344474.jpg

 

[Shenanigans]

Looks very tasty; I can almost taste it
I've been meaning to brew this for about two years now.
I'm going to make sure it will be one of my first brews for 2016 so that I have it ready for spring.

I'll use Bell Saison and Falconer's flight for bittering. Hopefully by then I will still have a few ounces of Fuggles left.
If not then I will use Willamette.

 

[stever1000]

Finally found the time to brew another batch.

I did a minimash with 2-row, c-60 and flaked oats, then used LME to make up the rest. My mini mash was more effiient than I was aiming for, so my OG is 1.070 Unfortunately I wasn't very organized and left out some hops at the end of the boil Hopefully this doesn't effect me too bad!

Pitched my old slurry in the low 60's and I will let the 3711 do its thing

10days later and my gravity is down to 1.014... I hope I can get it down to <1.005

 

[m00ps]

1.014 after 10 days? How much Yeast did you pitch and was there a long lag?

That seems suspicious to me. Especially with that strain. I've never had anything not be under 1.010 in 10 days with 3711 or any saison Yeast for that matter.

You try warming it,up?

 

[stever1000]

1.014 after 10 days? How much Yeast did you pitch and was there a long lag?

That seems suspicious to me. Especially with that strain. I've never had anything not be under 1.010 in 10 days with 3711 or any saison Yeast for that matter.

You try warming it,up?

This worries me. I am slowly warming it up to see if I can get it to finish up. I used old slurry and had lots of activity within 24 hours

 

[m00ps]

What temp did you mash at, or did you deviate from the OP recipe much and use a lot of specialty malts?

Agitating it a bit may help too. But FWIW, I heat my saisons up past 90F and that should surely get it to finish

 

[stever1000]

I did an extract with mini mash
I have it at 75 and its bubbling a small amount,ill bring it up above 80 and see if that works
thanks!

 

[Zippox]

I did an extract with mini mash
I have it at 75 and its bubbling a small amount,ill bring it up above 80 and see if that works
thanks!

Since you don't have control over the mash temperature they used for the extract, don't expect to get the final gravity as low as the OP. But you are doing the right thing by raising it to 80.

 

[stever1000]

Since you don't have control over the mash temperature they used for the extract, don't expect to get the final gravity as low as the OP. But you are doing the right thing by raising it to 80.

Thanks! Is it because my OG was so high, at 1.070?

The first time I made a recipe like this with the original 3711 package and a starter, it brought my extract recipe down to 1.005-ish so I was hoping the same would happen here

 

[Zippox]

Thanks! Is it because my OG was so high, at 1.070?

The first time I made a recipe like this with the original 3711 package and a starter, it brought my extract recipe down to 1.005-ish so I was hoping the same would happen here

Actually you might be right. The attenuation you got by going from 1.070 to 1.014 was 80% (using this formula [(OG-FG)/(OG-1)] x 100). According to Wyeast the attenuation of the yeast is between 77-83%. You definitely didn't hit the max alcohol tolerance of the yeast (which is 12%).

So my best guess is yes, you probably had too high of an OG. I honestly didn't think that the yeast would have ANY problem going from 1.070 to ~1.002ish.

Can anyone else confirm it is likely that the yeast have eaten as much sugar as that could explain why his FG was 1.014 (or around there)? I also noticed that you took this measurement at day 10. I would wait until day 20 or so and take another measurement to see if it was able to ferment more.

 

[stever1000]

Thanks for the help Zippox, I will probably wait at least 20 days + and check it again. The airlock still has bubbles from the starsan, so I know that it is occasionally bubbling. Slowly chewing away at the sugar....
I would be very very pleased if it dries out to 1.002-ish. My last experience with 3711 made me very happy, so I'm excited to see what this finishes at in the future. 9% would be rather interesting if it does try out!

 

[Zippox]

Want to see how different the same beer but with two different yeasts can look? This is a picture of this saison recipe that I poured into two different carboys and added 3711 on the left and 3724 on the right.

The 3711 (left) is soooo clear while the 3724 is insanely cloudy.

 

[stever1000]

Interesting,do you do 10g batches? Ill have to try that other yeast too

I checked my gravity this evening and I'm still at 1.013/1.013 so I think I maxed out

On that note, could I rack into a secondary and add some champagne yeast to dry it out? Or should I just bottle as is?

Thanks

 

[Zippox]

Interesting,do you do 10g batches? Ill have to try that other yeast too

I checked my gravity this evening and I'm still at 1.013/1.013 so I think I maxed out

On that note, could I rack into a secondary and add some champagne yeast to dry it out? Or should I just bottle as is?

Thanks

Yeah I'll normally do 10 gallon batches. Doesn't really make my brew day much longer and plus I get more beer

In regards to adding some champagne yeast: If the sugars aren't edible by the saison yeast, I'm pretty sure the champagne yeast wont fare any better. It would if the only reason the beer yeast crapped out was due to high alcohol content. That isn't the case here. I'd say your only hope to lower it would be to use brett or some various bugs and give it months for it to do its thing.

 

[m00ps]

You could try adding any other saison yeast. The flavor addition will be minimal at this point, although Im guessing you wouldnt mind some more saison complexity. Maybe just somethign weird happened with your 3711 and its not attenuating at is normally would. Any other saison yeast should get it below 1.010. Also, YB Belgian Dry Ale is pretty nuts. I jsut bottled a saison made with that and 3711 that got down to 0.998

 

[Shenanigans]

Maybe try adding a sanitized solution of half a pound or a pound of sugar and water? Would dry it out a bit and maybe kick start the yeast into eating more or the wort sugars.

 

[arnobg]

Can anyone comment on this recipe without the honey? This recipe looks awesome and I am adding it to my spring brew list but am wondering how the honey changes the taste profile. I am also wondering how much 1lb. adds to the OG as my software is showing a HUGE change with it, well above what the recipe shows on the first page.

 

[1977Brewer]

Can anyone comment on this recipe without the honey? This recipe looks awesome and I am adding it to my spring brew list but am wondering how the honey changes the taste profile. I am also wondering how much 1lb. adds to the OG as my software is showing a HUGE change with it, well above what the recipe shows on the first page.

I subbed a pound of raw sugar for the honey because I'm cheap. It made a very dry beer, almost a tartness to it. It was very good. I plan on re-brewing with the honey addition in the Spring, or sooner if I get temp control.

 

[arnobg]

I subbed a pound of raw sugar for the honey because I'm cheap. It made a very dry beer, almost a tartness to it. It was very good. I plan on re-brewing with the honey addition in the Spring, or sooner if I get temp control.

I see, I haven't brewed a Saison yet so I guess the whole point of the honey is a little flavor and something highly fermentable to make the beer dry?

 

[1977Brewer]

I see, I haven't brewed a Saison yet so I guess the whole point of the honey is a little flavor and something highly fermentable to make the beer dry?

Most likely, but most Saison strains already ferment so dry it might not even matter much, aside from the extra OG points. Not sure. I brewed a hoppy Saison on the slurry from this batch and it finished at 1.00 with no sugar at all, mashed at 158. Belle saison will ferment a horse.

 

[Rdom]

Can anyone comment on this recipe without the honey? This recipe looks awesome and I am adding it to my spring brew list but am wondering how the honey changes the taste profile. I am also wondering how much 1lb. adds to the OG as my software is showing a HUGE change with it, well above what the recipe shows on the first page.

I also used sugar instead of honey and it turned out fine.

 

[m00ps]

I see, I haven't brewed a Saison yet so I guess the whole point of the honey is a little flavor and something highly fermentable to make the beer dry?

I use honey like I would just simple sugar. Pound for pound, it add less to the OG than sugar though. Ive had good results using 12 or 24 oz (since I usually find it in 12oz containers).

The flavor doesnt really come through much in the end beer. It gets fermented out. I like adding it directly into the fermentor to preserve as much of the aromatics as I can. Adding 4oz or so of honey malt in the recipe will really give a decent honey flavor

 

[Brewbrewbeans]

This beer is an absolute dream. I made it as my 4th all grain batch and it's by far the best beer I've made, although I'm partial to saisons. This is definitely a must have on tap at all times type of beer. I have a poker night this weekend and I'm excited to see what everyone thinks of it.

 

[Terrapin]

Delicious, made with WY 3724

View attachment 1450490142735.jpg

 

[depper]

This beer is an absolute dream. I made it as my 4th all grain batch and it's by far the best beer I've made, although I'm partial to saisons. This is definitely a must have on tap at all times type of beer. I have a poker night this weekend and I'm excited to see what everyone thinks of it.

Be careful sharing this beer with others....it just means less for you!! The worst part about this beer is realizing it's all gone, but the best part is, you get to brew more! Enjoy this beer, it's a winner!

 

[azscoob]

This beer is an absolute dream. I made it as my 4th all grain batch and it's by far the best beer I've made, although I'm partial to saisons. This is definitely a must have on tap at all times type of beer. I have a poker night this weekend and I'm excited to see what everyone thinks of it.

That's awesome! I'm glad you love this beer, this still ranks up there as one of my crowning achievements in recipe design even after all these years

 

[stever1000]

I checked my gravity this evening and I'm still at 1.013/1.013 so I think I maxed out


Thanks

2 Weeks later...I bottled it today. It didn't dry up as much as I hoped, but the FG was ~1.008. Which means around 8%.
I bottled some into 3 champagne bottles to open next Christmas. The rest I will let sit for a few months so the flavours can develop!

Speaking of this recipe, I am brewing another batch today I am going to divide up my old yeast cake and pitch the new batch onto a portion of the yeast slurry

 

[stever1000]

Newest batch came to OG ~1.064...fingers crossed the yeast slurry brings this baby down to ~1.000

 

[arnobg]

What does everyone suggest for the CaraMunich? There are 3 different ones on NB.

Caramunich I, II, and III.

Also my software is putting the grain bill at 1.081 OG. To reduce should I cut the grain or cut the honey?