Saison Cottage House Saison

[hammis]

Brewed this up yesterday. Used carapils instead of caramunich (didn't have any on hand). Turned out much lighter in colour, maybe 3-5 SRM, and also a lot hoppier than i expected. Its fermenting now, so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[ne0t0ky0]

Brewed this last night... first time using pils and wheat; and had a little trouble with the mill gap; ended up a bit short on gravity, but made up for some (not all) with the honey. The flavor of the wort was amazing as-is so definitely looking forward to sampling this post fermentation.

 

[Veedo]

was just plugging all this into beersmith and noticed the 60 minute boil. no problems with the 60 vs 90 with the pils malt?

 

[azscoob]

My thoughts are I either havent had an issue because of a crazy hard boil or that perhaps modern malts are better converted and don't really need the 90 minute boil, in any case I have not noted the need for the 90 minute boil, heck it could even be the beast yeast cleaning up like mad.

 

[BWN]

I just kegged this(I had to wait an extra week because I hurt my wrist and didn't think I could lift it into my keezer) The Hydro sample was awesome, I can't wait to try it once it is carbed up. I'll report back.

 

[Smashing]

Just gathered the couple of things I didn't have for this to brew today and the LHBS didn't have the yeast. In fact they had nothing for this style! The chick running the place had no clue. Not sure they even have anyone that brews in that place. Oh well, plan b.......

 

[JeffoC6]

Well, here she is. Brewed on 4/7/12. OG: 1.057 and FG 1.000
Bottled on 5/7/12 and put first in fridge on Monday, 6/4/12. Just opened and here it is:

Tasting notes below. Bear with me, I'm a tad new to "tasting" and my palette isn't necessarily refined yet. Either way...

Appearance: Pours a nice orange yellow with about 2 fingers of off white creamy head. Nice and hazy like a saison should be, but not overly so. Head dissipates rather quickly and I'm left with a thin head for the remainder. No lacing

Smell: Spicey and peppery. I get some booziness, raisin, lemon and maybe some apricot?

Taste: Taste is boozy and belgian'y up front. Spicy undertones and crisp. Definitely boozy, but not offputting. Crisp and clean and tastes like a saison should. A little strong in the nose.

Mouthfeel: Decent body, a little on the thin side. Would prefer it with a bit more body to it. Perfect carbonation and easy drinking.

Overall: My first saison, and will definitely be brewing it again. I'm really happy with how this came out. My only critiques (most likely due to my newbie'ness) is that it's a bit thin, boozey, and lacking of the big billowy head throughout. Otherwise, this is a damn fine beer...BREW IT!

 

[azscoob]

let them sit a while longer in the fridge, this may help with head retention, also make sure the glassware is hand washed and "beer glass" clean. dishwasher rinse agents will kill a head on a beer in nothing flat.

 

[BWN]

pulled a small sample after 1 week in the keg. It needs to carb up a little more but I just couldn't resist. Even undercarbed and a little green I give it a thumbs up.

 

[hammis]

I let it ferment for 3 weeks in primary @68F. OG 1.06, FG 1.006. I filtered it Sunday night and tasted the sample from my hydometer reading and WOW! This stuff is amazing. I will be bottling tonight. This is definitely going to be an awesome summer beer. The intense bitter hop flavor has mellowed out and is now well balanced. The aroma is slightly sweet and the taste is slightly spicy and peppery (neither is overpowering). I pitched both saison and trappist yeast, and im glad that neither has overpowered the beer. Can't wait for it to carb up so i can enjoy this. Thanks for the recipe

 

[azscoob]

Glad you like it! One of the best parts about this recipe is it isn't overly complicated, less stuff to muddy the flavour

 

[enrybwerd]

I am a 95% new brewer, and will be trying out this recipe this weekend for my first brew. (I say 95% new because I've been doing a lot of reading up and watching videos about the brewing process, and have attended several brew days with some co-worker's friends).

Anyways, based on the previous conversations in this thread, I am going to try and use EKG instead of Fuggle, if available at local home brew supplier. Will use Willamette + lemon zest if Sorachi is not available.

Seeing that this thread is almost a full year old and I am still very new to home brewing, do any of you have any other suggestions for the recipe? Or things you wish you would have done earlier or later in the brew?

Thanks in advance, and hopefully I'll be back with a success story soon!

 

[azscoob]

I am a 95% new brewer, and will be trying out this recipe this weekend for my first brew. (I say 95% new because I've been doing a lot of reading up and watching videos about the brewing process, and have attended several brew days with some co-worker's friends).

Anyways, based on the previous conversations in this thread, I am going to try and use EKG instead of Fuggle, if available at local home brew supplier. Will use Willamette + lemon zest if Sorachi is not available.

Seeing that this thread is almost a full year old and I am still very new to home brewing, do any of you have any other suggestions for the recipe? Or things you wish you would have done earlier or later in the brew?

Thanks in advance, and hopefully I'll be back with a success story soon!

Looking back on this recipe I recall I was clearing out some hops, and that was why I used giggle. I do prefer EKG in most of my English ales, so I agree on the substitution there.

If you have questions on the details feel free to PM me. I check in often.

 

[Pie_Man]

Seeing that this thread is almost a full year old and I am still very new to home brewing, do any of you have any other suggestions for the recipe? Or things you wish you would have done earlier or later in the brew?

I've not yet brewed this beer, yet. I have been stalking this thread and will hopefully brew this in the next few months. I've also not used this yeast before, so my comment is more general.

This is a big beer, especially for your first brew. Although others have stated they didn't use a starter, the OP did use a starter, and in general, I would advise the use of a starter for a beer with this OG. Check out a yeast pitching calculator like mrmalty.com. Perhaps others who have brewed this can chime in on their yeast starter decision?

You certainly picked what seems like an awesome beer for your brew. Good luck.

 

[azscoob]

I've not yet brewed this beer, yet. I have been stalking this thread and will hopefully brew this in the next few months. I've also not used this yeast before, so my comment is more general.

This is a big beer, especially for your first brew. Although others have stated they didn't use a starter, the OP did use a starter, and in general, I would advise the use of a starter for a beer with this OG. Check out a yeast pitching calculator like mrmalty.com. Perhaps others who have brewed this can chime in on their yeast starter decision?

You certainly picked what seems like an awesome beer for your brew. Good luck.

If making a starter is a bit out of your league, spend the money and buy two packs of the yeast and pitch both.

 

[enrybwerd]

Rather than quote all responses from yesterday, I'll just send a quick reply.

I had to change out a few ingredients, which led me to have some more questions.

Here's what is different:

1. Simpsons Golden Promise instead of Pilsner Malt (2-row).
2. Willamette instead of Sorachi Ace (which was ok based on earlier discussion in this thread. Just wondering how and when to do the lemon zest?)
3. WLP565 Saison Ale Yeast instead of WYeast 3711 PC French Saison.

As far as my questions,
1. What difference will this new yeast and/or Golden Promise make?
2. As stated above, how and when do I add the lemon zest? I thought I remembered someone saying at the beginning of the boil, but then also thought it could be added at the same time as the honey and pepper.

Other than that, I still have to pick up the honey but am all set to brew this tomorrow!

---

For future reference, and proof of my still being new to this, what is the difference between making a starter and pitching a pack of yeast?

 

[Pie_Man]

The main purpose of the starter is to increase the number of yeast cells. As you'll see in the yeast calculator I referenced earlier, one vial of yeast is probably not enough to finish this beer. Especially for a Saison, which is on the drier side, lower FG. There are good tutorials for making a starter on this forum, and some video instructions on YouTube. In my experience, having the proper number of yeast is vital to your finished beer and 1.080 is a lot of sugar for the yeast to convert into alcohol. The yeast make beer, the brewer's job is to make wort and keep the yeast happy.

Pitching means to add yeast. So, if you're pitching a vial, you're adding the vial directly to the wort, no starter, no extra yeast cells.

 

[azscoob]

Add the zest with the honey and pepper.

the reason I chose the 3711 yeast is because it is a beast of a yeast that will ferment almost anything at almost any temp, some other saison yeasts can be temperamental in regards to temp and need to be in the 80s or higher to ferment fully.

 

[azscoob]

Also the golden promise is a bit more biscuity and bready than pils malt. I have used plain 2-row and haven't noticed much difference so you should be fine there

 

[enrybwerd]

Add the zest with the honey and pepper.

the reason I chose the 3711 yeast is because it is a beast of a yeast that will ferment almost anything at almost any temp, some other saison yeasts can be temperamental in regards to temp and need to be in the 80s or higher to ferment fully.

Any way to tell if I am running into a temperamental saison or not? And would pitching two vials help lower the temperature for fermenting fully, or is it more dependent on the type of yeast than the quantity?

The main purpose of the starter is to increase the number of yeast cells. As you'll see in the yeast calculator I referenced earlier, one vial of yeast is probably not enough to finish this beer. Especially for a Saison, which is on the drier side, lower FG. There are good tutorials for making a starter on this forum, and some video instructions on YouTube. In my experience, having the proper number of yeast is vital to your finished beer and 1.080 is a lot of sugar for the yeast to convert into alcohol. The yeast make beer, the brewer's job is to make wort and keep the yeast happy.

Pitching means to add yeast. So, if you're pitching a vial, you're adding the vial directly to the wort, no starter, no extra yeast cells.

Thanks for this reply - it was more useful than you may think.
I will take a closer look at the calculator and probably go pick up another vial of yeast.

 

[azscoob]

Any way to tell if I am running into a temperamental saison or not? And would pitching two vials help lower the temperature for fermenting fully, or is it more dependent on the type of yeast than the quantity?

Thanks for this reply - it was more useful than you may think.
I will take a closer look at the calculator and probably go pick up another vial of yeast.

That white labs yeast can be a bit lazy, and can go dormant as it nears FG. This could lead to bottle bombs if it rouses when bottled. I have also found that it likes it hot, like in the upper 80s and into the 90s hot....

 

[enrybwerd]

Despite a few equipment issues, yesterday's brew felt to be a success!

I ended up not being able to find and Orange Blossom Honey, so I just used regular honey and zested three oranges along with the lemons. Smelled down right amazing, and everyone there said they were excited to try this brew when it's done.

Didn't get to measure the OG correctly (had to measure it in a siphon that hadn't been sanitized for quite a while), but that yielded an OG of 1.06X, which if the target OG was 1.062 then I would say we are close enough for a first brew!

Will keep you posted as this ferments and let you know final results. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[timdog]

I brewed this a couple months ago and it turned out great. OG was 1.063 and it managed to finish nice and dry, at 1.002. I think I started out fermentation too low however (69 for the first 3 days then ramped up). I didnt get as much of the saison yeast characteristics as I was hoping. But all in all, I would rate the beer an 8/10 so this is a great recipe.

 

[azscoob]

I brewed this a couple months ago and it turned out great. OG was 1.063 and it managed to finish nice and dry, at 1.002. I think I started out fermentation too low however (69 for the first 3 days then ramped up). I didnt get as much of the saison yeast characteristics as I was hoping. But all in all, I would rate the beer an 8/10 so this is a great recipe.

Wow! An 8/10! When I designed this beer I was pleased with the results, but am still stoked so many people are enjoying it!

What yeast did you use? The 3711 or a different saison yeast?

 

[timdog]

I used the 3711... love that yeast but I am still new to it so I haven't found the perfect temp range. Personally next time I would pitch at 68 and rise to 71. Then maybe ramp up to 75 over 1 week. But that's only a bit of an educated guess.

 

[azscoob]

I used the 3711... love that yeast but I am still new to it so I haven't found the perfect temp range. Personally next time I would pitch at 68 and rise to 71. Then maybe ramp up to 75 over 1 week. But that's only a bit of an educated guess.

I have had good results pitching at 68 and letting it free rise.

I want to try the whitelabs saison yeast and ferment it in my house for the first few days then move it to my garage where it is well over 100° just to see what happens.

 

[timdog]

I find the first 3 days are the key... after that, not many weird flavors are produced no matter what the temp. I think we might just have different ideas of what we like in a saison. I prefer the higher level of esters and saison "funk" that I would probably get from a slightly higher ferm temp. But I have not brewed very many saisons so I am only assuming based on what I have learned.

 

[timdog]

Oh unless you were agreeing with me on the temp... what temp does yours usually rise to then? I don't really let my beers just free-rise... I try to have more control. So if I pitched at 68 and ramp up to 72 or so in the first day.. would that be about what you do?

 

[azscoob]

Being in AZ my house is at a cool 80° (compaired to 112° outside that is cool) in the summer. I have seen temps in the fermenter hit 85° but I think upper 70s to 80° is where I try to keep the 3711 strain

 

[azscoob]

And yes I was agreeing with you.

Thinking on it, my garage hits 118-120 in the day, that may be a bit too hot even for a saison!