Saison Cottage House Saison

[ddrayne10]

Hi I have been looking at brewing a saison for a while and just ordered the yeast so I will be brewing a version of this recipe friday the 20th. So I have a week to get some feed back on some ideas. I was debating between rye ipa and a saison but after looking at this i was thinking about combing both. I was thinking what about substituting the wheat for the Rye malt, this should make it darker (but i think not too much?) and maybe lend to a little more dry spice and hopefully complement the yeast? Also I love white pepper so I was also thinking about changing out the black pepper for white pepper. Also after primary I was going to pull off a gallon and add some brett for a few months for a dryer, more tart, and a funky nose. No yeast starter hoping to get more esters out of the yeast and also starting at 68 for a day and let it naturally ramp up not not over 75-80. Any suggestions? Does this sound bad or reasonable?

 

[Bensiff]

I'm assuming you are using unmalted wheat, correct? Does that with the oats add a lot of body?

 

[azscoob]

I have done it both ways with malted and unmalted wheat without a lot of difference but yes the oats and wheat do give is some nice mouthfeel.

 

[azscoob]

Hi I have been looking at brewing a saison for a while and just ordered the yeast so I will be brewing a version of this recipe friday the 20th. So I have a week to get some feed back on some ideas. I was debating between rye ipa and a saison but after looking at this i was thinking about combing both. I was thinking what about substituting the wheat for the Rye malt, this should make it darker (but i think not too much?) and maybe lend to a little more dry spice and hopefully complement the yeast? Also I love white pepper so I was also thinking about changing out the black pepper for white pepper. Also after primary I was going to pull off a gallon and add some brett for a few months for a dryer, more tart, and a funky nose. No yeast starter hoping to get more esters out of the yeast and also starting at 68 for a day and let it naturally ramp up not not over 75-80. Any suggestions? Does this sound bad or reasonable?

It will turn out to be a completely different saison than mine but I like what you are planning to do. It should be a pretty damned good beer!

 

[JeffoC6]

Have a question about this recipe...

I see in one of your posts that you would've used EK Goldings if you had them. I have a bunch currently in my freezer and no Fuggles. Would you think I'd get similar results just using my leftover EK Goldings instead of the Fuggles?

Also, anything else you could recommend instead of the Surachi Ace? I don't have any of this and not sure it'd be worth buying if I could sub in any of the following: Willamette, Cascade, Chinook, Mt Hood, Simcoe.

If you don't think I should be switching these out, then I'll certainly buy some Fuggles and Surachi Ace, but being relatively new to brewing, I wanted to consult with someone more experienced than myself.

What are your thoughts on this? Most appreciated!

 

[azscoob]

Have a question about this recipe...

I see in one of your posts that you would've used EK Goldings if you had them. I have a bunch currently in my freezer and no Fuggles. Would you think I'd get similar results just using my leftover EK Goldings instead of the Fuggles?

Also, anything else you could recommend instead of the Surachi Ace? I don't have any of this and not sure it'd be worth buying if I could sub in any of the following: Willamette, Cascade, Chinook, Mt Hood, Simcoe.

If you don't think I should be switching these out, then I'll certainly buy some Fuggles and Surachi Ace, but being relatively new to brewing, I wanted to consult with someone more experienced than myself.

What are your thoughts on this? Most appreciated!

I think you will be just fine with that EKG substitute, as for not having sorachi ace, I used it to give me some lemon note to go along with the black pepper hint.

You could substitute willamette, and maybe try zesting a bit if lemon into it, or a bit of bitter orange peel, have some fun with it! That's what makes this hobby so awesome, a tweak here, there. When I brew a saison, I use a bit of this, a touch of that, it is a farmhouse ale after all, think like a farmer and use what you have on hand!

 

[JeffoC6]

I think you will be just fine with that EKG substitute, as for not having sorachi ace, I used it to give me some lemon note to go along with the black pepper hint.

You could substitute willamette, and maybe try zesting a bit if lemon into it, or a bit of bitter orange peel, have some fun with it! That's what makes this hobby so awesome, a tweak here, there. When I brew a saison, I use a bit of this, a touch of that, it is a farmhouse ale after all, think like a farmer and use what you have on hand!

OK, so since I'm a 1-Gallon AG brewer (I know, I know, I should brew larger batches ), here's what I've come up with based on your original recipe and suggestions for replacements:

Grain/Sugars:

1.55 lbs. Pilsner Malt (2-row)
0.27 lbs. White Wheat
0.09 lbs. CaraMunich Malt
0.09 lbs. Flaked Oats

Hops/Spices:

0.09 oz. Willamette @FWH.
0.09 oz. EK Goldings @FWH
0.09 oz. EK Goldings @30 min
0.18 oz. EK Goldings @15 min

0.18 lbs. Orange Blossom Honey @ 5 min.
0.27 tsp Black pepper, Fresh ground @5 min.

Yeast:

Wyeast 3711

I have 2 questions left on this:
-You advised I could sub Willamette for the Surachi Ace and maybe add some lemon zest, which I think is a great idea. I've never done anything like this in making my brews, so how much would you recommend adding, and at what point in the boil? You can give me the measurement you'd use for lemon zest based on your batch size, I'll just scale it down to my teeny old 1-Gallon batch

-What do you mean by FWH (see above) during the hop additions? I'm assuming this means to add them at the 60 min. mark of the boil?

Thank you so much for your guidance on this!

 

[azscoob]

I would zest a whole lemon and add it to the boil on my first attempt (5 gal)

FWH stands for First Wort Hopped, you add the hops to the kettle as you are collecting the wort, it gives a smoothe bitterness with some flavoring aspects, I really love the way the beer turns out like that. as long as you are adding the FWH hops before the boil you should be good.

 

[JeffoC6]

I would zest a whole lemon and add it to the boil on my first attempt (5 gal)

FWH stands for First Wort Hopped, you add the hops to the kettle as you are collecting the wort, it gives a smoothe bitterness with some flavoring aspects, I really love the way the beer turns out like that. as long as you are adding the FWH hops before the boil you should be good.

Makes sense...So because I'm basically scaling everything down by 5.5 (to achieve a 1-Gallon batch), I'll use 1/5 of a whole lemon's zest and add the Willamette and EK Goldings to the wort before the boil, and then the remaining EK Goldings during the boil at 30 and 15 min.

Thanks so much! I think I'll be brewing this the weekend of the 24th.

 

[azscoob]

Makes sense...So because I'm basically scaling everything down by 5.5 (to achieve a 1-Gallon batch), I'll use 1/5 of a whole lemon's zest and add the Willamette and EK Goldings to the wort before the boil, and then the remaining EK Goldings during the boil at 30 and 15 min.

Thanks so much! I think I'll be brewing this the weekend of the 24th.

I would add the zest in the last couple minutes of the boil with the pepper, or at flame out.

 

[JeffoC6]

I would add the zest in the last couple minutes of the boil with the pepper, or at flame out.

Got it. I'm excited to brew this up. Will let you know how it turns out!

 

[miggedymike]

I brewed this up a few weeks ago.

I omitted the honey, didn't want to go buy any, subbed in honey malt and used corn sugar instead.

Used WLP 565 instead, but kept the hop schedule and pepper the same.

The beer is DAMN good. The aroma is really fresh smelling and it is spicy. I think more from the yeast than the pepper. Who knows, maybe they are so complimentary it is hard to tell what contributed more.

I pitched at 68 and after 1 night, moved it to an attic that let it rise and stay at about 82.

It finished at 1.008, which I am realizing now is pretty good for only using 565 without any extra help.

The beer is so good that I am brewing it again by using the same base, but will change spices by adding fresh shredded ginger along with the pepper (same timing) and same 565.

Will let you guys know.

Well done buddy.

 

[miggedymike]

I brewed this up a few weeks ago.

I omitted the honey, didn't want to go buy any, subbed in honey malt and used corn sugar instead.

Used WLP 565 instead, but kept the hop schedule and pepper the same.

The beer is DAMN good. The aroma is really fresh smelling and it is spicy. I think more from the yeast than the pepper. Who knows, maybe they are so complimentary it is hard to tell what contributed more.

I pitched at 68 and after 1 night, moved it to an attic that let it rise and stay at about 82.

It finished at 1.008, which I am realizing now is pretty good for only using 565 without any extra help.

The beer is so good that I am brewing it again by using the same base, but will change spices by adding fresh shredded ginger along with the pepper (same timing) and same 565.

Will let you guys know.

Well done buddy.

I forgot to add that I did not use Fuggles...used UK Goldings.

 

[JeffoC6]

Brewing this on Saturday. Just got my grain bill today. Really looking forward to it!

 

[azscoob]

Brewing this on Saturday. Just got my grain bill today. Really looking forward to it!

You are going to love it!

 

[JeffoC6]

You are going to love it!

I'm doing a 1 gallon batch, since I'm only a 1-gallon brewer right now
Per Tastybrew, do I just carb this up under the Belgian and French Ale- Saison style? I mean, I think that sounds pretty self-explanatory, but I just wanted to confirm. Thanks!

 

[azscoob]

I'm doing a 1 gallon batch, since I'm only a 1-gallon brewer right now
Per Tastybrew, do I just carb this up under the Belgian and French Ale- Saison style? I mean, I think that sounds pretty self-explanatory, but I just wanted to confirm. Thanks!

Yes, that is correct!

 

[JeffoC6]

Just finished up brewing this. My OG came out to 1.057, which was a little less than the target of 1.062. Smelled AMAZING when you add the honey, pepper, and then lemon zest at flameout.

I have a hydrometer sample in the fridge right now. I can't wait to taste it.

 

[JeffoC6]

Ahhh this baby is fermenting like crazy. Color looks great so far. Only 3 days in. I want to drink it NOW!

 

[HellBentBrewCo]

How did you get this to finish so low? When I plug this recipe into hopville it says it should be at 1.012.

 

[azscoob]

How did you get this to finish so low? When I plug this recipe into hopville it says it should be at 1.012.

This saison yeast is a beast, it ferments almost completely, I have seen this yeast drop down to almost 1.000 in the right conditions

 

[BWN]

I just ordered the ingredients for this. I couldn't get sorachi Ace, what would be a good substitute?

 

[azscoob]

I just ordered the ingredients for this. I couldn't get sorachi Ace, what would be a good substitute?

I told another a page or two back that I used the sorachi ace for the lemon flavor it imparts, so for a citrus note you could sub in centennial, which I find to have a bit of lemon flavor along with orange and grapefruit, then maybe add in the zest of a lemon in the last 5 minutes along with the pepper.

It may not be the same as using sorachi ace, but it should be a tasty beer with similar flavor as mine.

 

[BWN]

Thanks for the reply. I actually found them at farmhouse brewing supply. I just need to get some honey now. I am hoping to find some locally. Do you think it really matters what kind it is?

 

[azscoob]

Thanks for the reply. I actually found them at farmhouse brewing supply. I just need to get some honey now. I am hoping to find some locally. Do you think it really matters what kind it is?

I think it would matter more in a mead, in this beer I think you are good using what you have available, that's keeping in the spirit of a farmhouse ale anyway!

 

[BWN]

I got some local honey today the person who sold it to me wasn't sure what it was. I am hoping to brew this next week if my ingredients arrive in time. I am just really into saisons right now, can't wait.

 

[azscoob]

I got some local honey today the person who sold it to me wasn't sure what it was. I am hoping to brew this next week if my ingredients arrive in time. I am just really into saisons right now, can't wait.

You are going to love this beer, simple in its complexity, or complex in its simplicity... one of the two.

 

[rmedved]

I'm hoping to brew this next weekend. I'm assuming you used Sorachi Ace just because you had it laying around. I'm thinking it may play well with the yeast as a late hop, or even dry hop addition. Any thoughts?

 

[azscoob]

I'm hoping to brew this next weekend. I'm assuming you used Sorachi Ace just because you had it laying around. I'm thinking it may play well with the yeast as a late hop, or even dry hop addition. Any thoughts?

I had it kicking around, but it was a deliberate addition to bring in some lemon flavor to the beer

 

[Conway]

Hi,
How long have you kept a saison in the secondary for? I was thinking about keeping it at 75 F for a month or so. What is your thoughts.

I was going to dry hop it for the last 10 days with a Saaz.

Cheers,