Cost of all-grain brewing vs MrBeer vs buying beer at the store

[zzzman74]

As long as my cost to brew will be similar or less than buying craft beer, then I'm willing to jump in and enjoy it as a hobby. Your comment about brewing being your golf resonates with me. I get that. And I think I could enjoy brewing on that level.

 

[CUrchin]

Your are going to get a different answer from just about everyone, it really depends on batch size and how fancy you want your equipment to be. My official answer is $2 for paint strainer bags. I do BIAB with a 5 gallon pot and end up with batch sizes in the range of 2.5-3.5 gallons.

Remember BIAB is all grain brewing. You are just moving around grains rather than water/wort.

 

[Hello]

If you're looking at the least expensive way to move to all grain then BIAB is the way to go.
Otherwise, you're looking at a pot big enough to handle full boils, an efficient way to cool your wort, a way to store the hot water for your mash and sparge (I use my old 5 gallon kettle), and of course a mash tun. You can make a mash paddle for less than $10 if you have the tools already and the general know how.

I was lucky to find someone who was selling their mash tun with a really nice false bottom for $100. I could have probably built it slightly cheaper on my own but this one is really well done and it works very well. The kettle I have was from ebay and it was $125 (25 for the valve/bulkhead). Another $70 got me some fancy hardware that I needed/wanted for a dip tube, a thermometer, and some tubing, and the wort chiller was $60 if I include the pipe bender I just bought because I found 50' of copper coil on craigslist for $40 then needed the tubing, the hose connections and whatever else I needed to make the IC. I don't think I could have entered into the world of all grain for much less unless I did BIAB.

I also got a more efficient burner which was $40 online (SP10), which was necessary because while my old one will do a full boil, it is not as fuel efficient and I intend to make 10 gallon batches.

Of course, I had everything I could need for extract brewing so the cost to move to all grain was only a fraction of what it will cost you if you're starting brand new to the hobby.

 

[TallDan]

I think it depends where you live. Around here, any half-decent craft ale is up to at least $10-$12 a sixer. Cost-wise I can beat that all day long.

Since we're comparing bulk purchased homebrew ingredients, we should compare bulk purchased commercial beer. Most beer is a usually a little cheaper than that by the case, and certainly cheaper by the keg. Per batch, homebrew ingredients are still much cheaper, but that does narrow the margain some.

For me, personally, I've spent about $1k on my brewing equipment and about another $1k on the keezer in year that i've been homebrewing. I could have been cheaper than if i wanted to, but I'm far from having an over-the-top home brewery that many people here have.

Now, with extract ingredient kits that i started with, i paid $30-40 for a 5G batch. With all-grain, I'm in the range of $12-25 for a 5G batch. I brewed four extract batches before going all-grain, and ten all-grain batches now.

Before i started brewing, i was buying commercial craft beer in 1/6th barrel kegs. When i started brewing, i figured that i saved about $50 brewing my own extract batch over buying a craft beer keg. So, i'd be saving about $70 on an all-grain batch. So, total, I've saved $900 making my own beer vs buying craft, which has just about paid for my equipment other than the keezer, not bad.

That assumes, however, that my time is worthless, which it certainly is not. An all-grain brewday for me is probably 6-7 hours of brewing and cleaning that i spread out over 8-9 hours. Then add another couple hours per batch for checking on fermentation and kegging, and I easily spend 8+ hours on a 5G batch. So, even after my equipment costs are paid off, I'm brewing for about $8.75/hr in savings, just a little above minimum wage. Extract batches are much faster, the hourly rate in saving over buying craft beer might be a bit higher. Count the amount of time i spend reading homebrewtalk and planning batches and my hourly rate plummets to probably under $1/hr.

Now, there are several inaccuracies in my calculations. I could sway the numbers to make it look like i save more or less. I could make larger batches which wouldn't take much more time per batch and significantly improve the hourly savings rate, but would mean a little more outlay in equipment. I also give away a bunch of beer, killing my savings.

The thing is, for me right now, I don't count the hours i spend on brewing. It's a hobby that i'm enjoying. I use the cost savings over purchasing craft beer to keep my purchases on equipment in check, but that's just a guideline, not a rule. As far as hobbies go, something that pays for itself and entertains me for a few hours a week and almost a full day every few weekends is pretty good.

So, bottom like to the OP, if you're enjoying brewing and keep your spending within reason, you're not going to break the bank on this hobby. If you're trying to save money on beer by brewing your own, you could probably find a part time job that would do better for you or find other ways to save money around the house that will take a smaller initial outlay of money AND save you more in less time. I'd probably save more money per hour spent knitting sweaters and turning the thermostat down a few degrees in winter, but i enjoy the brewing.

 

[kevron]

So I am still using a MR. Beer to Ferment. If you want to keep using Extracts, buy a coopers extract can. I am brewing an Irish Stout with 2# of LME. Split it in half. I spent $28 for the Coopers can, 2# of LME, and S-04. Each batch should gets me 16 pints. So 32 pints total for $28. It is cheaper to buy the bigger cans and split them than it is to buy the Mr.Beer kits. I have a digital ounce scale in my kitchen so I split it all by weight.

This is much cheaper than buying by the case, and cheaper than using Mr. Beer kits. I have no first hand knowledge about doing AG. But I don't think it would be worth the time in the long run if you are only doing a 2.5gal batch. (unless you were trying new recipes) I will eventually get to AG when I have the facilities to handle it. I live in a small apartment, with a very small kitchen that has an electric stove.

Just my $0.02

 

[MindenMan]

As said before, there are many different ways to skin the AG cat. BIAB is a great way to start AG. For my Lauter/Sparge tun, I built a Zapap tun. One 3 dollar valve, two 4 dollar- 5 gallon buckets, a drill, and patience just for a start.

 

[Jayhem]

You can't count the cost of your propane burner and kettle as a "brewing cost" if you also use them to make Gumbo and soups to feed the family!

 

[TallDan]

Minimum cost? Probably $5 in gas to go to a few local homebrew club meetings, talk to a few people, be friendly, and get invited to join someone else locally on their AG brewday to see the process and learn the ropes. It worked for me.

 

[NickTheGreat]

I had an old rectangular cooler lying around that became my mash tun. The round ones were more than I was willing to pay, for a 10 gallon.

Maybe you could find one cheap at a garage sale or something? And then ~$25 in hardware and you're done. Assuming you are already extract and have the burner and large pot.

 

[AnOldUR]

^^^^^^^^^
Says the IRS . . .

 

[NickTheGreat]

I had a turkey fryer and bottled (which I saved) and my costs were low. I bought an immersion chiller. Then I bought another pot. Then kegs. Then CO2 manifolds. Then CO2 tanks. Then . . .

But if you did extract and bottled I think you could keep the cost pretty dang low.

 

[Homercidal]

Nylon bag for BIAB
Some plastic hose
Siphon tube
Fermenation bucket (food grade bucket)
Bottles
Caps
Sanitizer
Bottling wand
airlock
Pot big enough to make whatever sized batch you want to make

 

[TallDan]

Another quick thought on the subject:

Think of hombrewing just like homecooking. To cook at home, effectively everyone has already built a home kitchen and spent a good amount of money on pots, pans, stove, oven, microwave, etc.. Some people have spent tens of thousands of dollars on fancy gourmet kitchens and expensive serving utensils. Others have a small functional kitchen with the basics. Even a cheap stove, pans and plates will cost you more than eating fast food for a month, and that doesn't count what you'd spend on ingredients and the time spent cooking!

If you cook for one person and really do the numbers, i'll bet you'll find out that it doesn't make sense buy cookware and spend your time cooking your own meals, especially if you had to buy your kitchen and didn't already have one. For two people it's probably in favor of home cooking, and for a family of five it's much cheaper to cook, especially if you buy food in bulk (sound familiar?).

The difference is, how many of us have five beer drinkers at home?

 

[Upthewazzu]

Pick up this 17 gal Coleman cooler from Walmart and then convert to mashtun. It's cheaper than most small coolers. As a side effect, you don't have to buy a bigger tun when you want to do a 10 gal batch!

 

[AnOldUR]

The difference is, how many of us have five beer drinkers at home?

Do neighbors count? I’ve been supplying the guy across the street with beer. He brings me firewood to heat my house.




edit:
Probably shouldn't be saying that out loud. Sounds illegal.

 

[Jayhem]

If you cook for one person and really do the numbers, i'll bet you'll find out that it doesn't make sense buy cookware and spend your time cooking your own meals, especially if you had to buy your kitchen and didn't already have one. For two people it's probably in favor of home cooking, and for a family of five it's much cheaper to cook, especially if you buy food in bulk (sound familiar?).

The difference is, how many of us have five beer drinkers at home?

You are not gonna be able to argue that cooking at home doesn't save money, unless you only cook pasta, burgers and sandwiches!

I can cook a NICE steak dinner for 2 with potato, salad, iced tea and home brew and total cost for the ingredients is around $10 for the meal. A steak dinner for 2 at a nice resturant with a couple pints of premium beer + tax and tip? Easily $60-80. Heck, you can't even get a fast food meal these days for under $6 and I buy steak at $4/lb from my beef farming inlaws.

 

[violinguy]

Also, based on my calculations, home brewing makes way more economic sense with 5g batches than with 1g. I have only brewed 2 1g batches so far, but I've done some math. The average recipe kit for a 1g batch is about $10-12, probably closer to $12 than $10. For me, I would spend about $9-10 per six-pack for good beer (Fat Tire, Sweetwater etc). If I only get 8-9 bottles per 1g batch, the numbers don't work.

Seems to me that 5g recipe kits run about $30-ish and for 50 or so bottles, that's a much better bargain. Plus, if you buy your ingredients in bulk like the other posters have done, the bargain gets better.

VG

 

[SteakW]

For most of us, homebrewing is a hobby, not a way to save money.

True. Many of us home brewers did start off seeking to save money and found it was just as enjoyable to make beer as it was to drink it. And then you start to brew as often as you can.

 

[TallDan]

You are not gonna be able to argue that cooking at home doesn't save money, unless you only cook pasta, burgers and sandwiches!

I can cook a NICE steak dinner for 2 with potato, salad, iced tea and home brew and total cost for the ingredients is around $10 for the meal. A steak dinner for 2 at a nice resturant with a couple pints of premium beer + tax and tip? Easily $60-80. Heck, you can't even get a fast food meal these days for under $6 and I buy steak at $4/lb from my beef farming inlaws.

Actually, steak is typically a meal that most restaurants have lower margains on than chicken and pasta. Also, you wouldn't eat every meal at a full service restaurant if you ate out all the time. I didn't.

The point I was making is still valid though. To make that steak dinner, you easily have thousands of dollars of equipment. Oven, stove, grill, plates, silverware, pots, pans, plus all of your home-brewing equipment to make the beer. Ball park, it's got to be at least $2k worth of things that you used to make that meal. You saved $50 by making it at home instead of going out. You need to do that 40 times to pay for the equipment assuming your time is worth nothing. If you pay yourself $15/hr and it takes you an hour to prepare the meal, you only save $35 each time and you need to do it 58 times.

Any home brewery will pay for itself in 40-58 batches.

 

[Jayhem]

Actually, steak is typically a meal that most restaurants have lower margains on than chicken and pasta. Also, you wouldn't eat every meal at a full service restaurant if you ate out all the time. I didn't.

The point I was making is still valid though. To make that steak dinner, you easily have thousands of dollars of equipment. Oven, stove, grill, plates, silverware, pots, pans, plus all of your home-brewing equipment to make the beer. Ball park, it's got to be at least $2k worth of things that you used to make that meal. You saved $50 by making it at home instead of going out. You need to do that 40 times to pay for the equipment assuming your time is worth nothing. If you pay yourself $15/hr and it takes you an hour to prepare the meal, you only save $35 each time and you need to do it 58 times.

Any home brewery will pay for itself in 40-58 batches.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the point you were trying to make. It's just that you can't sell a home without a kitchen and most homes come with the kitchen appliances in place already so really you only need pots/pans, etc to start cooking your own mills. We don't have to drink beer every day but we do have to eat so home cooking is a much faster savings than homebrewing. My wife and I eat well at home for about $50/week and only eat sandwiches as a meal maybe 3 lunches a week, the rest is soups, gumbo, chili, steak, chicken, pork, veggies, salads, pastas, etc.

 

[TallDan]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the point you were trying to make. It's just that you can't sell a home without a kitchen and most homes come with the kitchen appliances in place already so really you only need pots/pans, etc to start cooking your own mills. We don't have to drink beer every day but we do have to eat so home cooking is a much faster savings than homebrewing. My wife and I eat well at home for about $40/week and only eat sandwiches as a meal maybe 3 lunches a week, the rest is soups, gumbo, chili, steak, chicken, pork, veggies, salads, pastas, etc.

Yep, I'm not trying to talk anyone into not cooking again. I'm also not trying to talk anyone out of homebrewing. I'm just pointing out that many people ignore the equipment costs and time spent making their own meals, just like they ignore equipment costs and time spent making their own beer. What I'm pointing out is that economics of the two are really pretty similar. In the long run, with either one you can save a lot of money if that's what you're trying to do. You can also blow a lot of money on toys you don't need for either one in the short term to the point where you'd be better off eating out and buying commercial beer for years!

 

[fearwig]

We don't have to drink beer every day

Totally confused by this part.

But no I agree, there is definitely some parallel, and I think you're pretty safe leaving the stove, fridge, etc. out of the cooking "costs". You can get started cooking at home--well--for $100-150 or so, if you don't get absolute crap. One good chef's knife ($15-20 if you have an Ikea), one good pan, one good stock pot. Now you could always get that $2000 copper gear from Williams Sonoma (the RIMS/HERMS and all that), or the $150 KitchenAid, etc., etc., but you can do a fine job without.

I think my beer hobby needs to ultimately save me money or at least break even, time input aside, or I'm a) going to feel like a bit of a dick about putting my family through an unreasonable expense and b) they're going to feel the same. That said, it's not like I work three jobs, so not every hour of my day is exactly convertible to money, so I don't factor that into my loss or savings. But maybe when I have brewed enough to justify it, and brew enough scale to justify it, I'll shell out for more things. But I will be doing more making than buying.

 

[user 19629]

I did my first all grain, using my bottling bucket with a grain bags as a mash tun.
And a turkey fryer on sale for $45.

 

[norsk]

Probably not a good idea to get into home brewing to save money... though once you get your rig set up, you can make better beer cheaper than you can buy it. We tend to make a lot of Belgians and bigger IPAs that can cost upwards of $10.00 or more a bottle... for about $1.00 a bottle. Savings add up quick at that rate...

Like most hobbies, you can spend as much or as little on home brewing as you desire... and still end up with great beer. I went a little crazy after about 6 mo. in and just had to acquire the latest and greatest brewing equipment. Nice brewing rig, pumps, chilled conical... the works. It was nice having the equipment, but I really would have rather spent that money on worthier goals. So I sold most of it (kept the chilled conical) and went back to the basics with ice chest and 15 gal kettle. Beer still comes out the same... Just remember to keep it fun and enjoyable for you and your family, having beer come out is an extra bonus...

 

[CKing]

After my initial 1 time purchases for all grain brewing equipment, I spend ~$20-$30 for a 5 gallon batch of beer; grain, hops and yeast included.

+1 for buying bulk as typical LHBS' around here charge $1.50 / lb. of grain, $2-$4 / oz. hops and dry yeast is comparable. For bulk, I can get a 50 lb. bag of Pale 2-row $42.50 ($0.85/lb). There is definitely a cost saving, IMHO for all grain vs any other style (extract, kits). I also belong to a beer coop so I reuse our 22oz bottles for my batches.

So on average, let's say an average recipe is $25 (yeast and hops included). I get ~25x22oz bottles from my batches (roughly 2 cases of beer). That basically equates to $1 per 22 oz bottle.

Hope this helps.

About the same for me as well. Typical 5%-7% abv batch of beer will cost me $20-$30 for grains, hops, and yeast.
I ferment 5.5 gallon batches resulting in at least 5 gallons of finished bottled beer.
So on average $25 / 5 gal = $5 per gallon = $0.04 per ounce.

In oHIo the average six pack of craft beer is typically in the $9-$10 range these days so that's $0.13 - $0.14 per ounce of store bought standard ale.

 

[zzzman74]

I'm not looking to save money with home brewing. I don't mind spending 8 hours on a brew day. I don't mind spending hours in the forums. I don't mind building a small brewery area in my basement and buying $1000+ worth of materials to do so.

But somehow, I worried that I might do all that and enjoy myself in the process, but come to find out that after all the time and expense I had created a $4 bottle of beer that I could have bought at the corner store for $2. Somehow THAT would break my spirit. Lol.

But the idea of making a $.50-$1 beer that TASTES like a fancy craft beer and telling my buddies that the on,y place they can get it is at MY place.....now THAT is absolutely perfect.

I'm in. Thanks guys.

 

[BigFloyd]

I've made some basic MrBeer kits and have been pleased with the flavor of the beer but not the low alcohol content. MrBeer has very recently launched some "advanced" recipes that use more malt extract and have higher end alcohol content. But the cost of those kits is significantly more. I wonder if anyone's tried these "ADVANCED RECIPES"? Any thoughts about quality, value, etc? Does this indicate MrBeer trying to become a more legitimate home brew kit?

They've had the deluxe refills around for quite some time which contain more malt/hops in the can of HME. The standard ones (the kind included with the kits) are generally considered to be much too light and watery which is why it's pretty common for folks to steep some grains, add 1/2 lb of DME and some hops to make something decently tasty out of a MB kit.

The LBK is a decent little fermenter (I will sometimes use mine for an experimental batch), but unless and until MB changes their pathetic written instructions (based more on marketing than good brewing practices), it will be hard to consider them a quality home brew kit. To be fair, there are also lots of 5-gallon kits whose instruction sheets are pretty bad, but none as loaded with bad info as MB.

 

[TallDan]

I'm not looking to save money with home brewing. I don't mind spending 8 hours on a brew day. I don't mind spending hours in the forums. I don't mind building a small brewery area in my basement and buying $1000+ worth of materials to do so.

But somehow, I worried that I might do all that and enjoy myself in the process, but come to find out that after all the time and expense I had created a $4 bottle of beer that I could have bought at the corner store for $2. Somehow THAT would break my spirit. Lol.

But the idea of making a $.50-$1 beer that TASTES like a fancy craft beer and telling my buddies that the on,y place they can get it is at MY place.....now THAT is absolutely perfect.

I'm in. Thanks guys.

I definitely had my gut check moments shelling out the cash for equipment, but I'm at the point now that I'm very glad I did and I'm considering some more equipment. Sounds like you have about the same attitude about it as I do, so I'll bet within 6 months you'll be very happily brewing some nice all grain batches that you love to drink and share. Have fun!

 

[zzzman74]

Ok, so everyone says MrBeer is just a novelty toy. I've made a few batches and other than the low alcohol content, I like the taste of the beer. Based on helpful advice here, my wife and I are planning to upgrade our hobby to extract or all grain brewing.

My question is: what differences should we expect?

 

[zzzman74]

So I am still using a MR. Beer to Ferment. If you want to keep using Extracts, buy a coopers extract can. I am brewing an Irish Stout with 2# of LME. Split it in half. I spent $28 for the Coopers can, 2# of LME, and S-04. Each batch should gets me 16 pints. So 32 pints total for $28. It is cheaper to buy the bigger cans and split them than it is to buy the Mr.Beer kits. I have a digital ounce scale in my kitchen so I split it all by weight.

This is much cheaper than buying by the case, and cheaper than using Mr. Beer kits. I have no first hand knowledge about doing AG. But I don't think it would be worth the time in the long run if you are only doing a 2.5gal batch. (unless you were trying new recipes) I will eventually get to AG when I have the facilities to handle it. I live in a small apartment, with a very small kitchen that has an electric stove.

Just my $0.02

Kevron... Or anyone else....how do you go about brewing like this? This method might be a nice transition for us between MrBeer and all-out all-grain. Know what I mean? How do I learn how to do what you're doing?