Cost Difference AG vs Extract

[Blaine]

I am planning an AG in the next few weeks however when I costed the recipee it appears that the AG is going to cost approximatly 2-2.5 time the cost of the equivilate size extract.

Does this sound right?

 

[aseelye]

How are you arriving at this figure?

 

[Orfy]

No. propably the other way round.
AG is cheaper, especially if you brew more and buy bulk.

 

[Brewsmith]

My LHBS sells base malt for $1.09/lb. while extract is about $10 for 3 lbs. For an average brew, say 1.050 OG, I'd use somewhere around 10 lbs of grain. It won't all be base malt, so lets just say $12.50 for a round number for grain. For the same gravity using extract I'd need about 6 lbs, costing $20. The hops and yeast would be the same. I can do all grain brews for easily under $20 while extract was costing me $30.

 

[seohiosipper]

I would have to agree that AG is cheaper than extract. That's one of the reasons I switched to AG, along with more control and the bigger challenge.

 

[zoebisch01]

One recipe I have was around $25 extract. For AG it costs me about $9.50. And, to boot, I am left with 6 gallons of final wort volume.

 

[sonvolt]

AG=Cheap
Extract=Expensive
Thread=Done

 

[the_bird]

Remember, though, the OP is Australian. I know that the "kit and a kilo" canned extracts are pretty common down there, I would presume that they are dirt cheap (especially since the "kilo" refers to a KG of table sugar), and it wouldn't surprise me if grain was more expensive than it was in the States.

So for U.S. brewers, AG is absolutelr cheaper, usually about 50% cheaper if you ignore the cost of the extra equipment. For Australians, I have no idea.

 

[JnJ]

An easy way to see the cost difference is to go to any big online store (AHBS, NB, Midwest) and look at the same recipe in extract and AG, the AG is always cheaper.

 

[zoebisch01]

Remember, though, the OP is Australian. I know that the "kit and a kilo" canned extracts are pretty common down there, I would presume that they are dirt cheap (especially since the "kilo" refers to a KG of table sugar), and it wouldn't surprise me if grain was more expensive than it was in the States.

So for U.S. brewers, AG is absolutelr cheaper, usually about 50% cheaper if you ignore the cost of the extra equipment. For Australians, I have no idea.

This is a good insight. I hadn't looked at where Blaine lived, and this could be having an influence.

I guess it should be added that buying in bulk can significantly impact your cost. My cost went down roughly %25 going from purchasing 1 lb increments of whole grain to 50 lb bags.

 

[Fiery Sword]

AG=Cheap
Extract=Expensive
Thread=Done

This is true only about the actual beer ingredients. The truth, however, is that becomming an all-grain brewer is much more expensive than being an extract brewer. I brewed extract kits for a long time with about $140 worth of equipment. In the last year, I have spent upwards of $800 and counting on all-grain equipment. Thinking about it that way, it would take a whole lot of all-grain batches to bring down the overall cost-per-batch to what is was when things were canned and simple.
So I'm going to make the comment that, all things considered:
Extract=Cheap hobby
AG=Expensive hobby
The fact that I'm saving $6 in ingredients per 5 gallons to do all-grain is offset by hundreds of dollars spend on boil kettles, insulated mashtuns, tanks, testing equipment, books, etc. etc. etc. IMHO, if you want this hobby to not cost you a ton stick with the cans!!

 

[cweston]

All-grain brewing certainly requires some equipment that extract brewing does not, but it needn't be super expensive, either...

When I went AG, I purchased a keggle and rigged it for about $100. I already had a propane burner.

I made a MLT using an old cooler and about $10 worth of CPVC and tubing.

I use another old cooler to hold sparge water. I bought an aeration stone a sanitary filter to use with an aquarium pump for a few bucks.

So if I'm saving 8-10 bucks a batch on ingredients, it only takes maybe a dozen batches to recoup that cost. I brew a little over a dozen batches a year, so that's not bad.

Of course, one could spend *much* more on fancy AG equipment, but it is not necessary.

 

[Fiery Sword]

So if I'm saving 8-10 bucks a batch on ingredients, it only takes maybe a dozen batches to recoup that cost. I brew a little over a dozen batches a year, so that's not bad.

Of course, one could spend *much* more on fancy AG equipment, but it is not necessary.

You've got me beat! By off-the-cuff estimates of capacity, approx. $ spent and consumption rates it will take a few years to recoup my investment. And I agree with your last assertion that fancy equipment is not necessary. That being said, I am one who doesn't mind his hobbies consuming $$. I admire pennypinchers when it comes to brewing, but to tell you the truth I find my forrays into save-money-land only end up costing me time and aggrivation. In certain cases, I can be a competative DIY'er. In others, I know buying professional equipment will probably last me longer and be more reliable along the way. I think I have Alton Brown syndrome: I'm half Norm Abrams, half MacGyver. Sometimes the wallet is the solution, and sometimes a sock, silly putty and a paper clip will do!

 

[cweston]

Right--if money were no object (or less of an object), I'd happily sink a bunch of it into fancy brewing equipment. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[zoebisch01]

This is true only about the actual beer ingredients. The truth, however, is that becomming an all-grain brewer is much more expensive than being an extract brewer. I brewed extract kits for a long time with about $140 worth of equipment. In the last year, I have spent upwards of $800 and counting on all-grain equipment. Thinking about it that way, it would take a whole lot of all-grain batches to bring down the overall cost-per-batch to what is was when things were canned and simple.
So I'm going to make the comment that, all things considered:
Extract=Cheap hobby
AG=Expensive hobby
The fact that I'm saving $6 in ingredients per 5 gallons to do all-grain is offset by hundreds of dollars spend on boil kettles, insulated mashtuns, tanks, testing equipment, books, etc. etc. etc. IMHO, if you want this hobby to not cost you a ton stick with the cans!!

The way I see it is, equipment costs (assuming you stick with it and don't have an equipment loss) will be recouped. I tend to think of it this way. A case of decent beer costs upwards of $25, many reaching into $30+. Multiplying this factor by the number of cases one brews in a month can easily justify it in all honesty. If I was spending $75 a month on 3 cases a month before, and now my ingredients cost is in the $15 for 3 cases that is significant. It doesn't account for time of course and accidents...but I think in general as long as you don't continue to spend on equipment you can quickly recover your costs if you consume a bit to begin with. If you are only brewing once every 3 months or something it would take significantly longer.

 

[NEPABREWER]

Ok fine lets project this out a little - what does a modest, fully functional 10 gal AG system consist of and cost? Vs. a $90.00 a month beer purchasing budget. Lets go out 12-24 months god knows I haven't stopped drinking beer its a part of my daily routine.

How many batches does one really have to make to make it COST effective. $$$ only not enjoyment, fun, experimentibility etc, $ and sense.

It seems that after 12 months of brewing AG would be all savings? Someone do the math Im busy. $30.00/case commercial beer VS. $x.xx/ 10 gal batch.

 

[the_bird]

I've dropped about $250 so far on AG equipment, it'll be probably $300 before long. I figure a decent-sized AG batch costs $20, versus $40 for extract. So, the payback is about twelve to fifteen batches - probably a years' worth of brewing, probably a bit less.

Plus, it's a lot more fun to be able to work with different malts, to be mashing - somehow, for me, it's more satisfying. Nothing wrong with extract, I may do some kind of wheat beer with extract in Febuary - but to me, AG is a lot more enjoyable. So really, I'm already in the black

 

[LarMoeCur]

You can do AG on a budget. I've used just about everything from my extract days. The only thing I added was a Mash cooler. It cost me 25 dollars to make. I also added a keg kettle. Which cost me 35 bucks at a scrap yard. Cut the top off myself I already owned the tools. Been using a turkey fryer for years now. You could use a stove but it will add time. I've got no more than 75 bucks in to my AG brewing.

 

[lostnfoam]

i would love to go AG just don't have the room. but i am looking foward to the challange of makeing my beers more to my likeing. and i also only started about six months ago. i have 6 extract brews done. so far i have been able to keep the primary full thanks to all the cool recipes i find here. well some day ill be able to hang with you AG guys and girls

 

[Wort*hog]

Don't forget the tools= toys = cool factor. Not sure it's all a guy thing but with any hobby half the fun is buying the "stuff".

 

[Spyk'd]

"Blaine? He sounds like an appliance."

:cross:

er...name that quote?

 

[uglygoat]

it costs considerably more in energy to brew an all grain batch... need more fuel and more water to boil, and cool it down. now you can recoop some of your energy by saving the cooling water, but i still drop way more than 20 bucks a batch when i factor in energy consumption.

anyhoo, it's a hobby and a source of pleasure and better drinking beer. you still can't beat twelve bucks a thirty pack for swill, if you want to do the math...

 

[zoebisch01]

it costs considerably more in energy to brew an all grain batch... need more fuel and more water to boil, and cool it down. now you can recoop some of your energy by saving the cooling water, but i still drop way more than 20 bucks a batch when i factor in energy consumption.

anyhoo, it's a hobby and a source of pleasure and better drinking beer. you still can't beat twelve bucks a thirty pack for swill, if you want to do the math...

True that. I suppose one could just run all the btu calculations..ugh hehe. The true reason I went to AG was because it offers me the chance to use the freshest form of malt (processing any food product reduces freshness in general) and a greater degree of control over the process in general. Plus it is even more fun, imho. There are quite a few more things you can tweak *tweak* *tweak* . So I guess in general from this discussin, is there is more to the argument of extract vs. AG. Not that extract is bad! Extract beers can and do win competitions.

 

[cweston]

The time factor is definitely something to keep in mind.

I could do an extract batch on a weeknight, no problem.

I have tried doing an AG batch on a weeknight and it is definitely problematic.

 

[uglygoat]

i agree the all grain is more hands and gives you more parameters you can control. it is also more satisfying to me. i left the extract brewing after about six months of brewing.

i don't consider costs anymore. i don't think i'll ever come out ahead when compared to just buying mass produced beers. i don't think homebrewers can even approach the massive scale you need to brew at to make it 'cheaper,' but it's not because of cost that i brew my own...

 

[cweston]

i don't consider costs anymore. i don't think i'll ever come out ahead when compared to just buying mass produced beers. i don't think homebrewers can even approach the massive scale you need to brew at to make it 'cheaper,' but it's not because of cost that i brew my own...

I think this is not an apples to apples comparison, since homebrewers typically brew a product that is much more comparable to microbrews or imports than to typical macro-produced beers.

A typical micro runs about $7 a sixpack. Thats about $63 dollars for 5 gallons (9 sixpacks).

If you brew "esoteric" styles like belgian beers, you're arguably saving a ton of money, since it'd cost a fortune to purchase 5 gallons of comparable beer.

 

[uglygoat]

w00T! great point cweston, i hadn't considered that. now to see if the equation works on swmbo..

 

[zoebisch01]

w00T! great point cweston, i hadn't considered that. now to see if the equation works on swmbo..

It must! hehe :fro:

 

[Hopfan]

"Blaine? He sounds like an appliance."

:cross:

er...name that quote?

Can't remember the exact person, but it is from the Gunslinger "trilogy" that Stephen King wrote. Not a huge King fan, but I used to check the bookstores every week for the next installment on that one. "BRILLIANT!"

 

[Hopfan]

I don't consider the cost of the brew. I do it because it's a great hobby, I enjoy it, and I get something drinkable (usually) as a result. I made the move to AG but I still do extract kits when I want to play with a new style, do an experiment, or just do a quick brew to get some in stock.