Cost: All Grain vs. Extract vs. Kit Brewing

[louis]

Hello!

I'm moving to all grain brewing, I'm in the middle of the transition. That is final, nothing is going to stop me (well, maybe my wife will make me do it outdoors...). I'm just making a few pieces of equipment.

With that being said, I've done mostly kit brewing, and kit modification and I've made some really good beers.

I'm under the impression that it is cheaper to brew all grain. I'm not talking about equipment - equipment is just an investment right, so that doesn't count.

I'm talking about the cost of the ingredients to brew the beer. What have you guys found? I would love to also get the opinion on someone who is brewing in Calgary and there take on the cost to brew as well.

 

[slym2none]

Nvrmnd, I am not Canadian... my bad, didn't see that on the first read-through.

 

[dstockwell]

Well extract is by far more expensive than AG, I never brewed extract simply because of that. One way you can figure kit vs no kit, is price the ingredients for the kit. Initially it's likely to be higher because you will order grains by the pound, and hops by ounces so you will have more than needed for the kit. However if you look at ordering enough ingredients for multiple batches you can come out ahead with more flexibility in what you brew.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

AG is cheaper in my experience.

 

[arnobg]

AG by far. Once you get into bulk grains, then crushing your own grain and not buying kits, then buying bulk hops, you will can easily pay less than $15 a brew sometimes less than $10. That's what I've seen in my experiences.

 

[louis]

AG by far. Once you get into bulk grains, then crushing your own grain and not buying kits, then buying bulk hops, you will can easily pay less than $15 a brew sometimes less than $10. That's what I've seen in my experiences.

Thanks Arnobg and everyone else for your input. I'll keep the bulk buying in mind.

How much of a grain do you guys buy at time?

 

[flars]

Which way to brew depends upon your sources for ingredients. Take an extract recipe you really enjoy, convert it to all grain then look at available suppliers for their prices.

 

[Jim311]

My homebrew shop lists prices for both, but the extract kits are typically 6 to 10 dollars more for a 5 gallon batch of an IPA or APA. More for heavier grain bills I'm sure. Once I got into all grain, even buying kits from the homebrew shop got a lot cheaper. If I'm feeling cheap I buy a single malt single hop kit and use some yeast I've stored in the fridge from another batch. I can brew that beer for 18 bucks I think, and that's homebrew shop pricing. It would be even cheaper if I bought grains in bulk and milled them myself.

 

[tgolanos]

Canadian and Aussie Dollar are just about equal so hopefully this makes sense. Extract costs me about $15/kg for DME and about $14 for a 1.7kg can of LME. In comparison, base malts cost me anywhere from $4.50 to $8.00 per kilo. If I buy a 12.5kg bag, it ends up costing about $3.00/kg.

Not including any new toys, of course.

 

[jwalk4]

Prices from my LHBS in Ontario:

1. DME = $6.00/lb
2. LME (Pale) = $2.83/lb
3. 2 Row = $1.80/lb

 

[Jim311]

I don't think comparing weight is really an apples to apples comparison though is it? Because a pound of malt extract is not necessarily equivalent (in sugar content/gravity points) to a pound of grain.

 

[Firewalker11]

Prices from my LHBS in Ontario:

1. DME = $6.00/lb
2. LME (Pale) = $2.83/lb
3. 2 Row = $1.80/lb

True North Brew Supply has Canadian 2-Row Malt (Colour 1.5 - 2.1 L Traditional, premium grade 2-Row malt made from the finest Canadian barley malt varieties. This malt is a suitable base for all beer styles.

$0.97 1lb

Check out the #50 bags as well, you may get it down to $0.65 1lb.

 

[arnobg]

Here's a helpful post I made recently as to how different people do their bulk grains if you have a few minutes to check it out, you may find it helpful like I did.

I actually have found buying bulk sacks and grain by the pound cheaper online than my LHBS if you catch 15-20% off sales even with shipping.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=565453

During a recent Chirstmas sale by utilizing free gift cards with purchases and percentages off etc. I was able to score a 50 lb sack of 2-row for $1.08/lb and Marris Otter for $1.32/lb including shipping. Pretty darn good deal.

 

[mredge73]

You should be able to find bulk grain for <$1 per lb somewhere; on average I pay $0.88 per lb.
I get my bulk hops for <$1 per oz. on nikobrew.com
Most brew days are <$15 on ingredients.

Additional equipment to consider:
One sack of grain will fit in 2.25 buckets.
A bucket with a gamma seal lid will cost you about $15 and will store un-crushed grain for 2-4 years without noticeable loss of freshness.
I have over 300 lbs at the ready across 25 buckets; some over 4 years old and still make good beer.
For hop storage a good deep freezer is needed and a way to seal them air tight. I use the mason jar method detailed somewhere on these forums.

 

[Terek]

you should also separate all grain brewing brewing from bulk buy all grain brewing. I just recently started buying all my grain and hops in bulk, and it is by far the cheapest way to do it. I get 50lb bags of 2 row/marris for 36$ plus tax. It ends up being like 72 cents a lb. I also get a 10% discount on specialty grains when i buy over 5 lb at a time. Then you can get a lot of good tasting hops on hopsdirect.com for 6-8$ a lb.

 

[slym2none]

I don't think comparing weight is really an apples to apples comparison though is it? Because a pound of malt extract is not necessarily equivalent (in sugar content/gravity points) to a pound of grain.

2 pounds of base malt will give you more gravity points than 1 of extract, and it still costs less.

 

[arnobg]

I got about 20 buckets for free from Dunkin Donuts. They are food grade and they have many sizes from 1.5 gallons to 5 gallons. I put Gamma lids on them coming out to about $6.98 a bucket!

 

[johngault007]

Not in Canada, but moving from extract/partial to all grain, my cost for ingredients dropped about $10-$15 USD.

I buy my base malt in bulk (usually 2 row and wheat), and everything else as needed. My last stout I averaged to about $ .43/pint.

Of course, propane use went up a little bit, but nothing crazy

 

[eujamfh]

You r on the right track to not include the equipment cost!

AG definitely cheaper if you are buying in bulk. Cost per brew really depends on what you are doing...double IPAs with tons of hops-you can easily get $35 (us) for 5 g.

Belgian quad using 3lb candi syrup...about the same maybe a little more.

Given those beers are $3-8 a piece (regardless of quantity) brewing AG is way cheaper.

If I was brewing to get BMC I am not sure it would be worth the time. I do drink those too-every beer has a place in time...just not what I choose to brew.

 

[Terek]

You r on the right track to not include the equipment cost!

and if you are ingenious enough, the equipment is cheap as well. I started all grain right off the bat. My first all grain set up consisted of mostly scavenged stuff. I had a burner/turkey fryer pot that was given to me many years prior. So free. Had propane tanks from the bbq. Mash tun was an old cooler i didnt use. I work in heating and air, so i have copper tubing lying around everywhere. Free copper manifold, and free chiller. Brass gas valve for my shutoff. Also free. Plus lots of 3/8" tubing lying around, from condensate pumps.
The only things i really paid for was a fermenter. The hose fittings for the chiller. Hydrometer. Someone gave me some starsan. And other misc. things that i didnt have in the kitchen, or SWAMBO wouldnt let me take. Like a funnel and screen.
All in all, i paid probably $40 for all equipment to brew all grain, minus ingredients.
But, i got the bug, and now with all the upgraded equipment and the brew room build, im probably $800 into equipment. But that was all choice, i got 75-80% eff from my free made stuff, so the only reason to upgrade was basically i wanted stuff that looked nice, and i can now afford it. Most of my stuff now is also DIY, but not made from "trash" that was lying around.

 

[allaway]

. I get 50lb bags of 2 row/marris for 36$ plus tax. It ends up being like 72 cents a lb..

You are really lucky to get MO for 36 bucks. I paid 72 bucks for a 55lb bag recently, and that was Munton's 50/50 when I'd really prefer to get something like Crisp MO etc...

 

[jonny24]

Two extract batches: ~$65 (paid shipping)
1 all grain: ~$25 (no shipping)

 

[canehdianman]

Hello fellow Calgary brewer,

Im an AG brewer as well. My brothers and i usually do 40L batches and keg it.

Your best bet is to stop by one of the 2 LHBS we have. Either Vineyard or Grapes to Glass, depending on what area of the city you are in.

I haven't found a way to buy bulk grain yet, so if you find one, let me know!

 

[Terek]

You are really lucky to get MO for 36 bucks. I paid 72 bucks for a 55lb bag recently, and that was Munton's 50/50 when I'd really prefer to get something like Crisp MO etc...

really? never really noticed, as i mainly use 2-row. They charge the same for all base grains. Its in there system as the "virtual bag deal" so mabe I cheat the system by taking it all home at once. First time, i told the guy that the 2-row was really cheap. He said I still get the virtual bag price if i buy a whole bag of whatever. Mabe im the only one who buys bags at once.....I think the dude only really knows how to run the register. Always get the same price

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

AG by far. Once you get into bulk grains, then crushing your own grain and not buying kits, then buying bulk hops, you will can easily pay less than $15 a brew sometimes less than $10. That's what I've seen in my experiences.

I would love to see the recipe for a sub $10 brew.
I buy bulk grain and hops and have never gotten to $10.Cream of three crops even cost more than that...And that's the cheapest Ive brewed

 

[allaway]

really? never really noticed, as i mainly use 2-row. They charge the same for all base grains. Its in there system as the "virtual bag deal" so mabe I cheat the system by taking it all home at once. First time, i told the guy that the 2-row was really cheap. He said I still get the virtual bag price if i buy a whole bag of whatever. Mabe im the only one who buys bags at once.....I think the dude only really knows how to run the register. Always get the same price

That's awesome. Hope the deal lasts for you - I can't even get regular 2-row by the sack for that cheap, let alone the fancier base malts.

 

[Terek]

I would love to see the recipe for a sub $10 brew.
I buy bulk grain and hops and have never gotten to $10.Cream of three crops even cost more than that...And that's the cheapest Ive brewed

i do an ipa like this. This is the cheapest brew I make, and i get darn good pricing:

10# 2-row: $7.20 (72 cents lb)
1# munich: $1.15
4oz cascade: free (homegrown)
4oz belma: $2.48 ($10 a lb)
irish moss: 10-20 cents (guess)
3ml lactic: 10-20 cents
washed us05: free
50 crowns: $1 ($4 for 150)
1/4 tank propane: $5
Total: $17.03
34 cents a bottle

i could see just your hops and grain costing 10-15, but if you factor in EVERYTHING it takes to brew a batch, i dont think you could ever get down to $10. Unless you owned the LHBS and pay cost for personal ingredients.

 

[Jim311]

and if you are ingenious enough, the equipment is cheap as well. I started all grain right off the bat. My first all grain set up consisted of mostly scavenged stuff. I had a burner/turkey fryer pot that was given to me many years prior. So free. Had propane tanks from the bbq. Mash tun was an old cooler i didnt use. I work in heating and air, so i have copper tubing lying around everywhere. Free copper manifold, and free chiller. Brass gas valve for my shutoff. Also free. Plus lots of 3/8" tubing lying around, from condensate pumps.
The only things i really paid for was a fermenter. The hose fittings for the chiller. Hydrometer. Someone gave me some starsan. And other misc. things that i didnt have in the kitchen, or SWAMBO wouldnt let me take. Like a funnel and screen.
All in all, i paid probably $40 for all equipment to brew all grain, minus ingredients.
But, i got the bug, and now with all the upgraded equipment and the brew room build, im probably $800 into equipment. But that was all choice, i got 75-80% eff from my free made stuff, so the only reason to upgrade was basically i wanted stuff that looked nice, and i can now afford it. Most of my stuff now is also DIY, but not made from "trash" that was lying around.

Agree, a lot of my stuff is home made, and much of it was given to me or virtually free. I don't really consider an ice chest I already had an expense, especially considering almost any beer drinker already has one