corny liquid post question

[jungdahl]

I keg root beer which is carbonated and dispensed at 25 psi. I have 35' of 3/16 tubing on the picnic tap. I was getting nothing but foam unless I vented the keg and turned pressure downb15psi then dispense but that caused air gaps in the tubing.
I replaced the dip tube o-ring on recommendation in this forum. I also replaced the poppets.
The thing I find odd and maybe this is normal, don't know but please advise.

When I tighten down the gas post it tightens normally. I feel resistance and tighten and then give a snug. Same way I would tighten anything.
When I tighten the liquid post it reaches a hard limit like metal to metal and it's not possible to give that final snug. Is this normal?
When the post tightens to the dip tube shouldn't there be a need for a snug to press on the dip tube o-ring?
Just an FYI I am 65 and not all that healthy and don't have great arm strength so I'm not overtightening.
Can I add another o-ring to the dip tube.

 

[Curtis Shaw]

For what it's worth, I have 6 ball lock corny kegs of three different origins and they are all the same as yours, the liquid post tightens down exactly as you describe. I replace seals on occasion as you did when they become visibly damaged. I've never tried to use double O-rings. I use a little bit of vaseline on the threads as well.

My liquid posts aren't leaking, yet. My gas in connectors, not the posts, are prone to leaking. I've found that cheaper connectors don't seal as well as the more expensive CM connectors.

I use 3/16 id beverage tubing at 10 feet in length and dispense beer with 10 psi at the most. Anymore than 10 psi causes foaming problems. I did have a wheat beer become soured a few months ago and it foamed up like a kids baking soda volcano. Could this be your problem?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

not to be rude but it can be done, do you have the poppet spring on the right way? depending on the style of poppet the spring is tapered and if you have it on backwards this would cause an issue. the resistance you feel when tightening would come from that spring and it compresses against the dip tube. i would not add a second oring. if you put a new one on as you mentioned that is good.

 

[jungdahl]

not to be rude but it can be done, do you have the poppet spring on the right way? depending on the style of poppet the spring is tapered and if you have it on backwards this would cause an issue. the resistance you feel when tightening would come from that spring and it compresses against the dip tube. i would not add a second oring. if you put a new one on as you mentioned that is good.

Yeh it's on the right way. It really only fits one way. Also, I don't think that's rude, you never know. Thanks for the reply.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Ok, there are different styles and I have 15 kegs so I got some mixed up in the past and the poppet didn't seat right. Not sure what's causing your issue, can you see foam in the line .. maybe it's just the picnic tap, they can be problematic

 

[jungdahl]

Ok, there are different styles and I have 15 kegs so I got some mixed up in the past and the poppet didn't seat right. Not sure what's causing your issue, can you see foam in the line .. maybe it's just the picnic tap, they can be problematic

I do not see foam in the line. I was thinking of some sort of flow control faucet but with already having 35' of tubing don't see that will help. It's a brand new keg and wondering if there is a problem in the manufacture. It's an AMCYL.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Well I'm leaning toward the faucet. I force carb my brews, 3 kegs at a time, as I do 15 gal batches, and I had one that I put in my basement fridge as opposed to my keezer, hooked a picnic tap to it just to have something on tap in my brewery and it was straight foam, the same batch in my keezer poured perfect. Not saying you need a flow control faucet, which I have 2 out of 4 on my keezer, but I know picnic taps can cause issues. I haven't done root beer but understand they are carbed and served at higher psi so the longer tubing should put you where you need to be. New keg... not sure where the flaw would be there, if you followed a carbonation chart with temp and psi so as to not over carbonate then to me the only thing left is the faucet... I assume the 35' of tubing is cold as the root beer.

 

[jungdahl]

Well I'm leaning toward the faucet. I force carb my brews, 3 kegs at a time, as I do 15 gal batches, and I had one that I put in my basement fridge as opposed to my keezer, hooked a picnic tap to it just to have something on tap in my brewery and it was straight foam, the same batch in my keezer poured perfect. Not saying you need a flow control faucet, which I have 2 out of 4 on my keezer, but I know picnic taps can cause issues. I haven't done root beer but understand they are carbed and served at higher psi so the longer tubing should put you where you need to be. New keg... not sure where the flaw would be there, if you followed a carbonation chart with temp and psi so as to not over carbonate then to me the only thing left is the faucet... I assume the 35' of tubing is cold as the root beer.

I Carb and serve at 25 psi 37 degrees. That's puts me at 3.84 volumes of CO2. Yes tubing is same temp. This device

KegLand Stainless Flow Control Ball Lock Threaded

seems perfect but apparently out if stock until September.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Have you done this with no issue in the past, with same setup?

 

[IslandLizard]

more expensive CM connectors

No need to use crappy generic QDs from unknown origin.

Here are real CMBecker QDs for a great price:
https://www.ritebrew.com/category-s/1912.htm
I recommend buying MFL type, not barbs, as you can use John Guest adapters with them as well as EVA Barrier lines.

While there, there may be some other things you need too, while saving on shipping.

 

[jungdahl]

I Carb and serve at 25 psi 37 degrees. That's puts me at 3.84 volumes of CO2. Yes tubing is same temp. This device

KegLand Stainless Flow Control Ball Lock Threaded

seems perfect but apparently out if stock until September.

No, I've had foam from day 1.

 

[jungdahl]

Have you done this with no issue in the past, with same setup?

No, had foam from day 1 but from the research I've done including CO2 volume charts line length calculators and other members in these forum I should not be getting foam.

 

[jungdahl]

No need to use crappy generic QDs from unknown origin.

Here are real CMBecker QDs for a great price:
https://www.ritebrew.com/category-s/1912.htm
I recommend buying MFL type, not barbs, as you can use John Guest adapters with them as well as EVA Barrier lines.

While there, there may be some other things you need too, while saving on shipping.

I think you're missing the point. The device I posted is for flow control. Or am I missing something.

 

[jungdahl]

For what it's worth, I have 6 ball lock corny kegs of three different origins and they are all the same as yours, the liquid post tightens down exactly as you describe. I replace seals on occasion as you did when they become visibly damaged. I've never tried to use double O-rings. I use a little bit of vaseline on the threads as well.

My liquid posts aren't leaking, yet. My gas in connectors, not the posts, are prone to leaking. I've found that cheaper connectors don't seal as well as the more expensive CM connectors.

I use 3/16 id beverage tubing at 10 feet in length and dispense beer with 10 psi at the most. Anymore than 10 psi causes foaming problems. I did have a wheat beer become soured a few months ago and it foamed up like a kids baking soda volcano. Could this be your problem?

I'm kegging root beer.

 

[day_trippr]

While the defective/missing beer dip tube O-ring syndrome is well known to keggers, if the faucet is pouring foam yet there's no visible foam in the beer line at the keg, I think you can rule out a problem at the post.

The only "beer" line length calculator worth using suggests it would take just under 22 feet of 3/16" solid pvc beer line to tame a brew dispensed at 25 psi. 35 feet - if truly 3/16" ID - really should result in a civilized pour, if perhaps a bit on the slow side.

Dialing down the pressure resulting in foam in the line just shows the "CO2 break-out" effect that happens when you dispense at a pressure below that which will hold the existing carbonation in the (root) beer. And as bubbles become nucleation sites, they beget bubbles, which beget bubbles, etc. That's the "cascade" effect in action.

So...the mystery here is why with the pressure set to effectively "chart pressure" (good) and a hella long line (good) there's foam at the faucet but none in the line at the keg. It really tends to finger the faucet itself. I can't see another answer...

Cheers!

 

[jungdahl]

While the defective/missing beer dip tube O-ring syndrome is well known to keggers, if the faucet is pouring foam yet there's no visible foam in the beer line at the keg, I think you can rule out a problem at the post.

The only "beer" line length calculator worth using suggests it would take just under 22 feet of 3/16" solid pvc beer line to tame a brew dispensed at 25 psi. 35 feet - if truly 3/16" ID - really should result in a civilized pour, if perhaps a bit on the slow side.

Dialing down the pressure resulting in foam in the line just shows the "CO2 break-out" effect that happens when you dispense at a pressure below that which will hold the existing carbonation in the (root) beer. And as bubbles become nucleation sites, they beget bubbles, which beget bubbles, etc. That's the "cascade" effect in action.

So...the mystery here is why with the pressure set to effectively "chart pressure" (good) and a hella long line (good) there's foam at the faucet but none in the line at the keg. It really tends to finger the faucet itself. I can't see another answer...

Cheers!

Yeh, I think you're right. Especially adding in Curtis Shaw's reply about liquid post tightening exactly as I described on all his corny kegs. I have my setup in a standard fridge. Do you have any faucet recommendations for that. I can drill and install, I'm old but still handy.
If I'm going that way I might as well go with a flow control faucet as well. Recommendations?

 

[jungdahl]

I'm kegging root beer.

I apologize I didn't read your complete post. Thank you much on the affirmation on liquid post tightening. One less worry. I think I will be going with the better QDs, as you suggest, and a faucet as suggested by day_tripper
. I have my setup in a standard fridge. Do you have any faucet recommendations for that. I can drill and install, I'm old but still handy.
If I'm going that way I might as well go with a flow control faucet as well. Recommendations?

 

[Curtis Shaw]

It really tends to finger the faucet itself. I can't see another answer...
Cheers!

Well said! I had forgotten my horrible experiences from some years back. I now only use picnic taps when I need to take a sample from a conditioning keg.

I remember losing the better part of a keg one night after forgetting to disconnect a picnic tap serving line. It dripped onto the floor all night. Foaming was a problem as well.

A few years back I bought a few Perlick 630ss faucets and love them. They're expensive but work well for me. I'm sure there are other acceptable options.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I agree, i was leaning toward that picnic tap. i love my flow control faucets and my regular intertaps as well.

 

[IslandLizard]

I think you're missing the point. The device I posted is for flow control. Or am I missing something.

Yeah, sorry, I had missed that, you're not.

 

[Bobby_M]

First, no one ever brought up temperature. If you're trying to dispense at anything higher than 38-40F, that's a big problem. The colder the better with soda. If it's already cold.... carry on......

The way to diagnose this is to look at the hose all the way at the black connector while pouring and see if you get bubbles in the line. If so, it means CO2 is likely injecting into the outflow of liquid. This can happen in two different ways. 1. The oring between the diptube and keg post is damaged so CO2 can get up into the post there. 2. There is a pinhole leak in the upper end of the diptube allowing headspace CO2 to inject into the liquid. I've seen the latter happen exactly twice in 5 years of dealing in used kegs so it's quite rare but not impossible.

One last thing. You can temporarily test if one of those situations is happening by laying the keg down on its side with the liquid post towards the floor and pour again. If the foaming goes away when those two CO2 injection points are fully submerged then you know one of those is the problem.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Good point on laying the keg on its side, i always forget about that little trick for diagnosing dip tube leaks. i believe he said he carbs and serves at 37f @25psi

 

[jungdahl]

First, no one ever brought up temperature. If you're trying to dispense at anything higher than 38-40F, that's a big problem. The colder the better with soda. If it's already cold.... carry on......

The way to diagnose this is to look at the hose all the way at the black connector while pouring and see if you get bubbles in the line. If so, it means CO2 is likely injecting into the outflow of liquid. This can happen in two different ways. 1. The oring between the diptube and keg post is damaged so CO2 can get up into the post there. 2. There is a pinhole leak in the upper end of the diptube allowing headspace CO2 to inject into the liquid. I've seen the latter happen exactly twice in 5 years of dealing in used kegs so it's quite rare but not impossible.

One last thing. You can temporarily test if one of those situations is happening by laying the keg down on its side with the liquid post towards the floor and pour again. If the foaming goes away when those two CO2 injection points are fully submerged then you know one of those is the problem.

Thanks for that. I'll give that a try. The more possible I can eliminate the better.

 

[jungdahl]

Well said! I had forgotten my horrible experiences from some years back. I now only use picnic taps when I need to take a sample from a conditioning keg.

I remember losing the better part of a keg one night after forgetting to disconnect a picnic tap serving line. It dripped onto the floor all night. Foaming was a problem as well.

A few years back I bought a few Perlick 630ss faucets and love them. They're expensive but work well for me. I'm sure there are other acceptable options.

I like Perlick as well but dont

Well said! I had forgotten my horrible experiences from some years back. I now only use picnic taps when I need to take a sample from a conditioning keg.

I remember losing the better part of a keg one night after forgetting to disconnect a picnic tap serving line. It dripped onto the floor all night. Foaming was a problem as well.

A few years back I bought a few Perlick 630ss faucets and love them. They're expensive but work well for me. I'm sure there are other acceptable options.

I like the Perlick line of faucets but not sure how to mount to a fridge door.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

its fairly simple, you get the shank and drill the appropriate size hole. put the shank through the hole and tighten, then the faucet will attach to the shank on the front and your line will go onto the back of the shank. you will need a hole saw to drill it. the shank will have a collar on the front and a nut on the back, they come in different lengths so make sure you get one that will be long enough to stick out the back far enough but not to far.

 

[IslandLizard]

put the shank through the hole and tighten,

You may need to add some reinforcement against the inside of the door, distributing the force of the tightening nut over a larger surface, to prevent compressing the foam or fiberglass filled shell. A piece of thin plywood or some other resilient material should work fine. If you're having more taps in the door, make the piece of plywood backing large enough to span all the taps.

they come in different lengths so make sure you get one that will be long enough to stick out the back far enough but not to far.

Include the thickness of the backing material (above) in determining the length of the shanks.

Use only stainless shanks and taps. Chrome plated brass won't do.
Forward sealing taps are best for homebrewers, less stickiness and a shorter channel exposed to air.

 

[jungdahl]

its fairly simple, you get the shank and drill the appropriate size hole. put the shank through the hole and tighten, then the faucet will attach to the shank on the front and your line will go onto the back of the shank. you will need a hole saw to drill it. the shank will have a collar on the front and a nut on the back, they come in different lengths so make sure you get one that will be long enough to stick out the back far enough but not to far.

I found this article. Even had a parts list.

https://www.thescrewybrewer.com/2015/11/perlick-630-series-faucet-easy.html?m=1

 

[jungdahl]

You may need to add some reinforcement against the inside of the door, distributing the force of the tightening nut over a larger surface, to prevent compressing the foam or fiberglass filled shell. A piece of thin plywood or some other resilient material should work fine. If you're having more taps in the door, make the piece of plywood backing large enough to span all the taps.


Include the thickness of the backing material (above) in determining the length of the shanks.

Use only stainless shanks and taps. Chrome plated brass won't do.
Forward sealing taps are best for homebrewers, less stickiness and a shorter channel exposed to air.

I figured I would need backing on the inside maybe outside as well. Thanks for the tip on not used chrome plated brass. I found this online and the parts list shows chrome plated brass shank

https://www.thescrewybrewer.com/2015/11/perlick-630-series-faucet-easy.html?m=1

 

[jungdahl]

its fairly simple, you get the shank and drill the appropriate size hole. put the shank through the hole and tighten, then the faucet will attach to the shank on the front and your line will go onto the back of the shank. you will need a hole saw to drill it. the shank will have a collar on the front and a nut on the back, they come in different lengths so make sure you get one that will be long enough to stick out the back far enough but not to far.

I'm looking at the Perlick 690SS but not sure the creamer would make a diff. Actually not sure it's appropriate for root beer. I sent off an email to Perlick.
I assume the diameter and threads per inch are standard on the faucets.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Good call, im sure they'll know the best option for your setup.