Copper products

[RPh_Guy]

Has anyone used copper sulfate solution and/or Kupzit and/or Reduless and can comment on the dosing and efficacy?

 

[gregbathurst]

I have used copper sulfate, years ago. You only need a tiny amount. my method - dissolve a teaspoon in 100ml water, dissolve a teaspoon of that solution in 100ml water, use a teaspoon of that solution in 20L of cider

 

[ten80]

I've had success removing sulfide aromas by adding a 2" piece of 1/2 copper pipe to my keg for 1-2 days until the sulfide aromas dissipated. I boiled the copper prior to adding it in order to sanitize it. One could hang the piece of copper by a thread for easy retrieval.

While adding solid copper (e.g. pipe) is not as effective as copper sulfate, it is completely safe with negligible risk of overdosing the cider. Just don't leave the copper in the fermenter too long (more than a week?) as cider is mildly acidic and will begin to dissolve the copper.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I have a 2 ft long 1/2 inch pipe I stir with for sulphur. I also have a handfull of 1/2 inch caps I stick in a giant teaball I got at an oriental market that I can hang from the rim for the more stubborn batches.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have used copper sulfate, years ago. You only need a tiny amount. my method - dissolve a teaspoon in 100ml water, dissolve a teaspoon of that solution in 100ml water, use a teaspoon of that solution in 20L of cider

I'm guessing you don't know the strength of the copper sulfate you used?

It's interesting that most people just improvise when we have inexpensive products specifically made for this purpose.... Which make it easy to add specific amounts and avoid copper overdose.

I don't think using copper piping makes the risk of overdose negligible. Put a penny in a taster glass with some cider and swirl it around for 30 minutes. It'll taste like copper. It's effective at removing the H2S but the flavor is rather harsh afterwards. I prefer a more scientific approach whenever possible.

 

[gregbathurst]

H2S is detectable in very low concentrations, just a few parts per billion, so the amount of copper you need is really tiny. It is hard to measure such small amounts in homebrew volumes. You can be more scientific or use the commercial copper products, but my method works and won't add toxic or detectable amounts.

 

[RPh_Guy]

H2S is detectable in very low concentrations, just a few parts per billion, so the amount of copper you need is really tiny. It is hard to measure such small amounts in homebrew volumes. You can be more scientific or use the commercial copper products, but my method works and won't add toxic or detectable amounts.

I appreciate you sharing but I'm still missing some details. You're starting with a "teaspoon" of what? Copper(II) sulfate pentahydrate powder/granules?

If a teaspoonful of copper sulfate pentahydrate is 5 grams, then your method delivers 0.14ppm copper (if I did the math right).
I have no problem doing a serial dilution if it's needed for the best results.

Other methods are not difficult, arguably less difficult than a serial dilution. Reduless is simple to measure and delivers 0.02ppm copper with the suggested usage rate, for example.

I'm wondering if anyone might have tried multiple ways/products and can compare them? People using copper pipes have no clue about how much copper is getting into the wine/cider. The average "taste threshold" of copper in water is only a couple ppm, but I believe it's possible to be below taste threshold and still negatively impact the wine/cider if too much is added, plus I'm a super taster, so the average thresholds don't really apply to me.

 

[gregbathurst]

I haven't used reduless, I'm sure it's a better solution, ha ha, but copper sulfate is easier for me to get, you asked for experiences. My method is just an easy way to deliver a very small amount of copper, you could start with half the amount if you want to be careful, if it doesn't work initially you can keep adding doses. I don't often get h2s problems.

 

[RPh_Guy]

copper sulfate is easier for me to get

You're talking about the pentahydrate solid???

 

[gregbathurst]

You're talking about the pentahydrate solid???

Sorry, I don't have it anymore, I just remember buying blue granulated powder.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I have some large blue copper sulfate crystals, 90% and 99%. My dad and grandfather used it to kill trees. I feel safer using my plumbing parts. And all I do is stir till the smell is almost gone. Then wait. Advice i was given here concerning a "nuclear option" IIRC.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Advice i was given here concerning a "nuclear option" IIRC.

Yeah, that was me.

Aeration + copper definitely removes H2S, within a couple minutes. However, I want to also make sure there's no harshness from oxidation or excess copper, more like a tactical nuke, or "smart bomb"?

I haven't used reduless, I'm sure it's a better solution, ha ha, but copper sulfate is easier for me to get, you asked for experiences. My method is just an easy way to deliver a very small amount of copper, you could start with half the amount if you want to be careful, if it doesn't work initially you can keep adding doses. I don't often get h2s problems.

Sounds good, thanks. Almost all the comments I've read about using straight copper sulfate were negative, so you were one of the few using it correctly, apparently.

 

[gregbathurst]

I can understand not wanting to use straight copper sulfate, you have to be careful and understand the nature of the problem. Using a piece of copper means you don't know how much copper you are adding. If you need to add copper regularly you should order some reduless or similar. I have a vineyard as well as an orchard, some vineyards use copper oxychloride spray to control downy mildew, that way you can say you are "organic". They use up to 6kg of copper per hectare (per year), I think it's crazy when there are much better alternative fungicides, that's a lot of copper to put into the environment.

 

[joejelly]

I have had some stinky results recently. Copper seems to fix some. I have been twisting and bending romex into key fobs for handy copper.
Other batches don't seem to respond. So, either:
1- it isn't a sulphide issue. or
2- it is more complicated (mercaptins and dimethyl sulphide are terms that come up).
For option 2, my research indicates I have to reduce the compounds with ascorbic acid before being able to fix things with copper.

From Wine Technology & Operations:

My photo upload doesn't seem to work. Here's a shared album with the 2 relevant pages:
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0hGWZuqDGjsDBr

 

[RPh_Guy]

For option 2, my research indicates I have to reduce the compounds with ascorbic acid before being able to fix things with copper.

Great info! Thank you!