Coopers kit ale grain bill... any guesses as to what ale or recipe it is similar to?

[Mumathomebrew]

I know it's a funny question to want to clone a kit. However it's because I used an ancient Coopers kit for a first beer, but want to do the same-ish thing using all grain so I can adapt the recipe to where I want it to go.

Does anyone have a clue as to what grain or hops might go into the Coopers malt sachet as it was already malted and hopped.

I don't really know beer styles, so does anyone know what type of ale it is similar to, so I can look up a recipe. So is it like an ordinary English bitter or a pale ale type of thing?

Appreciate thoughts.

It was a Coopers real ale I think. So real what kind of ale?

edit. Luckily found a photo of the tin we used and it's Australian real ale.



I found this thread but still looking
Found a description here that suggests it might be a blond ale

 

[kh54s10]

No real knowing what is in there. IMO, Coopers are entry level beers, I don't know why you would want to try to clone it. Maybe look for recipes of Australian blonde or pale ales..

And if your "ancient Coopers kit" was an old can of hopped malt extract, you will not be able to recreate it anyway. The hops would have faded and the malt would have staled. Old extract will be very different from fresh extract.

You might look to emailing Coopers for some guidance.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It was a Coopers real ale I think. So real what kind of ale?

Maybe this: https://coopers.com.au/our-beer/ales-stout#original-pale-ale ?

If so: 4.5% ABV, 4 SRM (8 EBC), 24 IBUs; "... fruity and floral characters, balanced with a crisp bitterness, ..."

I know it's a funny question to want to clone a kit. However it's because I used an ancient Coopers kit for a first beer, but want to do the same-ish thing using all grain so I can adapt the recipe to where I want it to go.

Does anyone have a clue as to what grain or hops might go into the Coopers malt sachet as it was already malted and hopped.

Rather than "reverse engineer" the malt extract, what ingredients would produce a beer similar to https://coopers.com.au/our-beer/ales-stout#original-pale-ale ?

Maybe something along the lines of: British (or Australian) malt (Maris Otter, Golden Promise, ...) for the base malt, a clean bittering hop at start of boil (Magnum? target 20 IBUs), local equivalent of Willamette at flameout (for fruity / floral), English-style yeast (for fruity / floral) ? It could be that all the fruity / floral flavors are from yeast (and no flame-out hop addition).

 

[Steveruch]

No real knowing what is in there. IMO, Coopers are entry level beers, I don't know why you would want to try to clone it. Maybe look for recipes of Australian blonde or pale ales..

And if your "ancient Coopers kit" was an old can of hopped malt extract, you will not be able to recreate it anyway. The hops would have faded and the malt would have staled. Old extract will be very different from fresh extract.

You might look to emailing Coopers for some guidance.

I'm working on a piece for Zymurgy about extracts and never received a response to an email I sent asking about their amber extract.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Thank you. I'm not actually trying to clone the kit per se. We were drinking the last bottle of the first brew I ever made using a Coopers kit, and it was tasting too strong because of the jaggery, so we added the lighter cream of the crop beer to it in our drinking glasses. It was a random one off happening, but the resulting beer was so nice that we want to try and invent a new hybrid recipe that replicates it. I shall examine those suggested similar recipes, so thank you.

I reckon it will take more than a few tries to get there but it will be fun.

I found a recipe credited to AndrewQLD. It uses Barrett Burston Ale Malt & Wheat Malt and Bairds Dark Crystal with Pride of Ringwood hops for bittering.

I looked up the hops and Goldings are suggested as a sub. and I have those. I can get the malts locally.

From three recipes I can find that all have taken from this same source. I shall be scaling down to 4L so I can fit the liquid and the krausen into a demijohn.

The Cooper bit is looking something like this ishy-ish for 2L with things I have and things I can get.

Maris Otter between 340g - 419g
Wheat Malt (flaked wheat I have) between 22g - 30g
Dark Crystal (I don't have) between 4.5g - 15g (I've got crystal, Cara Red and chocolate malt)
Goldings @60' between 1.5g and 2.3g

I'd used jaggery (45g) as the sugar and Muntons gold yeast

The cream of the crops was this for 2 litres

Maris Otter pale malt 136g
Flake maize 45.36g
Flaked rice 11.34g
Mongrel hop @60' 3g

I'd used S05 yeast for this.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

OK first attempt will be along these lines without going shopping.

Maris otter 550g
(will try without buying wheat malt this first time)
Crystal 10g
Cara red 3g (using this and the choc to mock up what I imagine might darken the crystal-ish)
Choc malt 2g
Flaked Maize 45g (considering adding +30g to sub for the wheat malt)
Flaked rice 11g
Jaggery 45g
Mongrel hops 3g @60'
Golding hops 2g @10'

Yeast. I have Youngs ale, Muntons, S04, S05, Windsor or Nottingham

It will be interesting. Got to make a few muddles to learn, but its fun trying. Yell if you see a potential horror please.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Used SO4 yeast in a 2L water bottle to ferment in. This took a long time to clear but we bottled it today. Looked lovely and clean but the FG was only down to 1.030 from an SG of 1.054. I sipped a drop and it tasted fine. Bottle conditioned in 4 x 330ml bottles with 1.5 of the cafe sugar sachets of demerara sugar. We'll just have to wait and see if it's nice enough to make a bigger batch. I have high hopes for this recipe so let's hope it isn't disappointing.

 

[kh54s10]

Used SO4 yeast in a 2L water bottle to ferment in. This took a long time to clear but we bottled it today. Looked lovely and clean but the FG was only down to 1.030 from an SG of 1.054. I sipped a drop and it tasted fine. Bottle conditioned in 4 x 330ml bottles with 1.5 of the cafe sugar sachets of demerara sugar. We'll just have to wait and see if it's nice enough to make a bigger batch. I have high hopes for this recipe so let's hope it isn't disappointing.

View attachment 659493

Get those bottles out of the light immediately. The sunlight will skunk the flavor is a very short amount of time. Too much headspace in the bottles also. You should fill to about 1 inch (25mm for the rest of the world) from the top.

 

[Jag75]

As for the skunking we did a little experiment with a Mexican lager I made. We filled up an empty corona bottle capped it sat it outside for about 10-15 minutes and was blown away how skunky it was in that short of time .

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Does anyone have a clue as to what grain or hops might go into the Coopers malt sachet as it was already malted and hopped.

I don't really know beer styles, so does anyone know what type of ale it is similar to, so I can look up a recipe. So is it like an ordinary English bitter or a pale ale type of thing?

Don't overthink it, those basic kits aren't trying to "clone" a specific beer, they just want to make something that tastes vaguely like beer the buyer is used to. In general Aussie ales are somewhat lager influenced (only natural given the climate) but also influenced by the brewing techniques of the old country. So Boddingtons is perhaps the closest UK beer, or maybe Stella mixed with eg Landlord. In fact Cooper beers are not too hard to find in the UK, from Aussie bars and odd places like the Whole Foods off Piccadilly Circus. The mobile version of Untappd is quite good for tracking down beers like that.

Bearing in mind that Aussie beers are trying to ape British beers I wouldn't tie yourself up in knots too much trying to find Aussie ingredients when they are just using what they have to hand. Just use British pale malt, maybe 3% crystal (more if you want to go more towards eg Hobgoblin) and a nice yeast.

 

[Mumathomebrew]

Just posted it in the what are you drinking section but am posting a pic here too. Very pleased with this.