Cooling your wort - a tip I got from a pro

[balrog]

How much time is saved during cool down by using frozen liquid (water, grapefruit juice , ...) vs just chilled liquid (say at 40*F)? Are there equations to estimate this?

Yes. Thermal gain from phase change, and thermal gain from two temp-diff vols of liquid. You gain more from phase change (frozen to liquid). You just need mass and temp of frozen amount, mass and temp of wort amount, and Google.

Example here
I also made something in Excel when I used to extract brew. I ended up never using ice as boiling, freezing, sanitizing containers, etc was just blech to me. I always just used tap or refrigerated tap water, cooling small 2g of boiling wort in sink bath first since the delta-temp of sink and boiling wort take delta-Q heat transfer very quick

 

[Druman07]

The exact same thing can be done using all grain.
I will purchase enough extra malt for a five gallon batch, run the numbers on a calculator for 65-70% efficiency, and then collect enough high gravity wort for a 3-4 gallon boil. When finished, the near ice-cold dilution water is added and the kettle covered. If the mash goes well the batch usually yields leftover sweet wort for a yeast starter and some malt tea.
I do this for several reasons.
I'm cheap, step mash and boil on the stove, and rarely, if ever, use an immersion coil even though I have the parts on-hand.
Can I make good beer this way?
Yes, and it's cheaper than kits if you prep and sanitize properly.

That's interesting. My local shop has been encouraging me to increase batches from 1 gal to 2.5, using this method, saying that besides having a bigger fermenter I can use the same equipment i have now. So does that mean that the whole concept of water adjustment is just for the mash, and just regular tap water has no influence in the fermenter? I use RO water for all grain batches now, so it seems odd that I don't have to worry about chloramines or chlorine that is added to my tap water when adding to the higher gravity wort. Am I missing something? I have been contemplating increasing batch size so this is a very timely discussion...

 

[kh54s10]

lol, and yet i see so many threads about water profiles here!

Much more important with all grain as opposed to extracts. It also is talked about in relation to someone having a problem or the desire to make their good beers even better.

You need to chill your wort quickly.

That is debatable... There are plenty of brewers who do no-chill. Just wait for the wort to cool naturally to pitching temperature.

 

[Lefou]

For me, dilution is aimed at getting the correct volume and gravity range while cooling the wort down. The brewing salts can positively affect mash pH and help increase your sugar extraction. It would seem diluting would affect that - and it does, but if you have a versatile brewing calculator it really helps understand mash and water treatment for your final wort.
I usually treat the water with brewing salts to reflect the total batch volume going into the fermenter. Brewer's Friend has an advanced water/grist calculator I typically use and Brewer's Friend also has adjustments set up for those who do partial boil, full boil, extract, and BIAB.

 

[Lefou]

There are plenty of brewers who do no-chill. Just wait for the wort to cool naturally to pitching temperature.

Minimizing exposure to open air is key.
There are lots of arguments - oxygen exposure, hot side aeration, infection vectors, and loss of volume with evaporative cooling. The main point is to minimize them all without spoiling the wort. I've literally diluted partial boils with cold bottled water and put plastic wrap over the mouth of the kettle. The wrap had a few holes punched in with a toothpick for pressure equalization and minimizing evaporative loss. The lid was put on and the entire kettle dropped into a small snow pile for a few hours while I shoveled snow from the front driveway.
Some days you have to multi-task and be flexible.

 

[chickypad]

That's interesting. My local shop has been encouraging me to increase batches from 1 gal to 2.5, using this method, saying that besides having a bigger fermenter I can use the same equipment i have now. So does that mean that the whole concept of water adjustment is just for the mash, and just regular tap water has no influence in the fermenter? I use RO water for all grain batches now, so it seems odd that I don't have to worry about chloramines or chlorine that is added to my tap water when adding to the higher gravity wort. Am I missing something? I have been contemplating increasing batch size so this is a very timely discussion...

You shouldn't have to worry about infections topping off with tap water but you should still treat for chloramines. I put the top off water in my sanitized fermenter with campden, then put the whole thing in my keezer to chill while I'm brewing.

 

[kh54s10]

Minimizing exposure to open air is key.
There are lots of arguments - oxygen exposure, hot side aeration, infection vectors, and loss of volume with evaporative cooling. The main point is to minimize them all without spoiling the wort. I've literally diluted partial boils with cold bottled water and put plastic wrap over the mouth of the kettle. The wrap had a few holes punched in with a toothpick for pressure equalization and minimizing evaporative loss. The lid was put on and the entire kettle dropped into a small snow pile for a few hours while I shoveled snow from the front driveway.
Some days you have to multi-task and be flexible.

Until LODO there were some that were concerned with hot side aeration and others that once it's cool will still aerate well.
It isn't going to ruin your beer if it takes a while to cool it. Here in Florida, I can only chill with my IC to about 80 degrees, the temperature of the tap water in winter on many days. I use ice with the IC and get it a little lower then I put it in my fermentation chamber (Inkbird controlled chest freezer). It takes several more hours to drop the last 10 degrees. I haven't had any issues with it taking that long.

 

[Soulshine2]

Much more important with all grain as opposed to extracts. It also is talked about in relation to someone having a problem or the desire to make their good beers even better.



That is debatable... There are plenty of brewers who do no-chill. Just wait for the wort to cool naturally to pitching temperature.

agreed.
I looked up the side by side exbeerment on it, chill vs no chill.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/09/cooling-the-wort-pt-1-no-chill-vs-quick-chill-exbeeriment-results/

I still prefer to do a rapid chill ,and by copper immersion coil. IMO there isnt enough info in the article to sway me. It is an interesting piece definitely worth reading. I'm just not sold.
Not just that the "no chill" in a blind triangle panel is "unique" but not reported necessarily better . Everyone has different preferences, likes and tastes. What may be a good beer to one or few may be horrible to another.
Also, I'd rather not leave my hot (boiling)wort to cool in plastic for 15-20 hrs , have an infection invade it or worse, a leak. I've seen what simple hot tap water does to a plastic gallon water jug. Even though it was specifically designed for potable/drinking water .The plastic softens , and molded seams leak after repeated use and hot and cool cycles.
My other questioning/skepticism of it is -
Among other reasons , Once the whirlfloc goes in , I was under the assumption the wort needs to rapidly and immediately cool (to ...under 100*F?) in order for the solids to fall out of suspension.
correct me if Im wrong , please.

 

[bobeer]

agreed.
Once the whirlfloc goes in , I was under the assumption the wort needs to rapidly and immediately cool (to ...under 100*F?) in order for the solids to fall out of suspension.
correct me if Im wrong , please.

I have never used a whirlfloc tablet but I do no chill brews every time I brew. Once I toss in the whirlpool hops I get a real whirlpool going and let it stop on its own. (I usually keep the wort in the kettle until it's pitching time since I'd rather have my 200 degree wort in stainless steel than my plastic fermentation bucket. I think it cools faster too.) Once the wort has been transferred there's a nice circular pile of trub in the bottom of the kettle that doesn't go into the fermentor. I've never had any issues, really, doing this.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Pros use whirfloc too, and there's often a good 1.5-2 hours (or more) between the time the boil is cut and the last of it is chilled. Could be as much as an hour before chilling even starts and it's not all being chilled at once, either. Whatever hasn't been chilled is still sitting barely sub-boiling.

Basically a good chunk of wort is still sitting well above 200 degrees for at least an hour, usually more than that.

Now, when it IS chilled in heat exchanger (big plate chiller) it's immediate.

But you don't have to chill it all immediately.