Cooling wort and transferring from Mash and Boil

[Razorback_Jack]

Greetings!
I recently got a Mash and Boil, and I love the brew day, how everything runs smoothly. There are a few things I wonder about, at the end of my boil.

I used my immersion cooler in the M&B, took a very very long time to cool to 75 or so degrees.
Seems hardly possible to cool quickly, as the heating element underneath the wort will stay hot for a long time.
After finally cooling, I siphoned to my fermenter. I didn’t want to send my cooled-down beer through the drain valve, because how would I sanitize it first?

How have you tackled these two concerns? I have a thought, wish I’d thought of it before now but ...we brew and learn. What if, right after boiling, I send the hot wort through the drain valve into a 7 gallon kettle. Then I can set that in my sink with ice around it, and maybe that will aid the immersion cooler in getting down to 70 faster? If anyone has different/better ideas, please let me know your processes.

Jackson

 

[Redpappy]

I am far from an expert, so take this for what it is worth. As of right now I still brew over a propane flame. I have a Spike Kettle. I also use a SS IC that I recirculate my water with, i use a cooler and a pump to run the water up to the IC. So far with my process i have had no issues at all. I have only be brewing since 2018, so i still consider myself new.

To answer some of your questions, or at least how I deal with this..

After finally cooling, I siphoned to my fermenter. I didn’t want to send my cooled-down beer through the drain valve, because how would I sanitize it first?

I have a QD hose that I attach to my drain. during my cooling phase (sometimes I add it at the begging of the boil) I place my drain hose into my fermentor (bucket) that has starsan in it( I get my wort cooled in about 10 min if i am on top of it and keep the recirculating water on ice, otherwise it can take me 20 min). Once I get my wort called down to about 70 degrees F, i attach my connector to my kettle and let it drain. I don't really think about the 1/2" of piping that does not get touched with the boiling wort. I may be just getting lucky with the fact that i run starsan through my drain line to kill off anything that the wort may come in contact with.

now as far as

I have a thought, wish I’d thought of it before now but ...we brew and learn. What if, right after boiling, I send the hot wort through the drain valve into a 7 gallon kettle. Then I can set that in my sink with ice around it, and maybe that will aid the immersion cooler in getting down to 70 faster?

With this, my thoughts is first you will want to make sure the new Kettle has been sanitized before transfer ( extra work), then once you get it transferred, you plan on lifting this kettle up that has boiling hot wort in it to a sink( extra work, and has the potential to burn you or someone that is helping you out) now with an ice bath as well as an IC ( that you have to pick up out of your boil kettle and place into your secondary kettle) will probably cool your wort down at a decent pace.

Long story short - I would cool your wort in your kettle, open the drain valve and let it transfer to your fermentor.

 

[McKnuckle]

Sanitize the drain valve by 1) running Star-San through it before brewing; and 2) spraying Star-San into it from the outside before draining the wort. I have a similar setup in my Braumeister and this is not a thing I’d ever have worried about.

Also I think you’re exaggerating the residual heat on your coil. After the power shuts off, it will cool rapidly to match the large volume of wort around it, which you are then chilling. I think your slow chilling is probably caused by something else. Do you stir when chilling?

 

[Razorback_Jack]

I am far from an expert, so take this for what it is worth. As of right now I still brew over a propane flame. I have a Spike Kettle. I also use a SS IC that I recirculate my water with, i use a cooler and a pump to run the water up to the IC. So far with my process i have had no issues at all. I have only be brewing since 2018, so i still consider myself new.

To answer some of your questions, or at least how I deal with this..
I have a QD hose that I attach to my drain. during my cooling phase (sometimes I add it at the begging of the boil) I place my drain hose into my fermentor (bucket) that has starsan in it( I get my wort cooled in about 10 min if i am on top of it and keep the recirculating water on ice, otherwise it can take me 20 min). Once I get my wort called down to about 70 degrees F, i attach my connector to my kettle and let it drain. I don't really think about the 1/2" of piping that does not get touched with the boiling wort. I may be just getting lucky with the fact that i run starsan through my drain line to kill off anything that the wort may come in contact with.

now as far as
With this, my thoughts is first you will want to make sure the new Kettle has been sanitized before transfer ( extra work), then once you get it transferred, you plan on lifting this kettle up that has boiling hot wort in it to a sink( extra work, and has the potential to burn you or someone that is helping you out) now with an ice bath as well as an IC ( that you have to pick up out of your boil kettle and place into your secondary kettle) will probably cool your wort down at a decent pace.

Long story short - I would cool your wort in your kettle, open the drain valve and let it transfer to your fermentor.

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, a little worried about lifting a kettle with 5 gals of hot brew!

 

[Razorback_Jack]

Sanitize the drain valve by 1) running Star-San through it before brewing; and 2) spraying Star-San into it from the outside before draining the wort. I have a similar setup in my Braumeister and this is not a thing I’d ever have worried about.

Also I think you’re exaggerating the residual heat on your coil. After the power shuts off, it will cool rapidly to match the large volume of wort around it, which you are then chilling. I think your slow chilling is probably caused by something else. Do you stir when chilling?

Thanks for the advice on sanitizing the valve. I suppose maybe I’m being paranoid, but sanitizing beforehand... what if I’m recirculating using the valve during mash? Doesn’t that negate the prior sanitization? Also no, I did not stir during the cool-down. I’ll try that but will have to stir around/inside my immersion cooler.

 

[McKnuckle]

Yes, definitely stir inside the chiller. Moving the wort around dramatically accelerates chilling. Don't splash it wildly of course, just move it with a smooth circular motion.

And I really wouldn't worry about the valve so much. It's in contact with 150º+ temps for an hour while you recirculate. It is seriously fine. Spray the opening before draining and call it a day.

 

[Ahks]

what if I’m recirculating using the valve during mash? Doesn’t that negate the prior sanitization? Also no, I did not stir during the cool-down. I’ll try that but will have to stir around/inside my immersion cooler.

I use my recirculation pump to whirlpool while chilling to move the wort around the chiller. Greatly increasing the immersion chiller efficiency. Start the pump the last 5 minutes of boil so boiling wort sanitizes the drain spigot, then cut the heat, do whirlpool hopping or turn on the water to chiller. Once chilled, I close the valve to the pump, take the hose out of the kettle (or in my case off my recirculation port), spray some starsan on it, put the end in my fermenter, and re-open the valve, and let the pump move my wort to the fermenter. Kills a few birds with one pump

 

[Coastalbrew]

I agree with @McKnuckle on the valve. I remove the barb and dunk that in sanitizer then spray the spigot with star San, put the barb back on and good to go. If you're really stressing about it, why not just recirculate a few quarts of wort right at the end if the boil before you start chilling? The hot wort will kill anything in the valve.

As for chilling, ground water temp plays a big part in how long it takes to cool the wort. It has been a very mild winter where I live and so it takes me longer to chill because the ground water is still fairly warm. I just use my chiller to stir the wort. I'll grab the top and just swirl it around every few minutes. Takes about 15 minutes to get the wort down to the mid to high 60's. I have thought about trying to rig up a prechiller to cool the water before it goes into the chiller, but so far have been too lazy to mess with it.

 

[Razorback_Jack]

Thanks to everyone, this is great info. I will not worry so much about the valve, and spray it before attaching a pre-sanitized hose for transferring. I recirculate, and don’t use a pump. With regards to chilling, how long do I need to let it sit after stirring and before transferring, to make sure I don’t transfer too much trub?

 

[Coastalbrew]

I transfer all of it except for the last. 25 gallon that is below the valve and doesn't flow out when I tilt the unit forward at the end of the transfer. Research has shown that the trub has nutrients that are beneficial to the yeast during fermentation.

 

[McKnuckle]

Agreed... I avoid transferring hop matter to the fermenter, but trying to avoid the break material is an exercise in futility with no obvious objective. Just move it on over.

I keep hops out by either using a stainless canister in the boil, or a sieve/filter while draining to the fermenter, depending on which equipment I'm using that day.

 

[WesBrew]

drain hot wort to fermentor. drop Immersion chiller in the fermentor and chill it there.

 

[mkopec1]

YOu can recirculate wile cooling. Dont worry about the spigot, if you start the recirculation when you stop the boil, there will be ample heat to sanitize the entire spigot, tube running up and the tube going down to the wart. Some even build copper tubes for whirlpool effect going the opposite direction your chiller goes. So if the chiller is configured to go counter clockwise with the flow of the water, bend like maybe 4-5 feet of 3/8 copper tubing to go clockwise, along the inside of your boil kettle, so it has a bigger dia than wart chiller, then just place this contraption in the wart during last 15 of the boil to sanitize, just like your chiller, then when boil is done, hook up the flexible return tube to your new whirlpool tube and let the pump do its thing. It will gradually whirlpool your wart while cooling.

Sort of like this idea, but it will have to stand on its own on the bottom on your setup..

https://vintage63brewing.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/whirlpool-all.jpg