Cooling the wort is unnecessary

[The Pol]

Since all of the questions thus far have been answered numerous time, in great detail in some cases, in other threads dedicated to "no chill"... Id urge anyone with questions to search those threads, there is a plethera of information there. Every week another no chill thread starts and it is getting really difficult to keep the information together.

Search, is our friend.

 

[The Pol]

Since this seems to have turned into a 'No Chill Q & A' thread, what impact does No Chill have on the more volatile hops compounds that account for flavor and aroma? Is the fact that the container is covered aid in the retention of these chemicals?

Are there certain brews that you wouldn't no chill?

Hop adjustment is needed.

BYO ran a chart a while back showing the utilization of hops at certain temps during long term cooling. Based on this, and my own brewing experience with no chill, I posted a chart here on HBT with hop time adjustments.

I dont know that I would say there is a beer that I wouldnt no chill, but I dont think there are many that you can no chill without making hop schedule adjustments to balance the utilization.

To date I have brewed a Blonde, Pale Ale and a Hefe that are all no chill.

As far as I am concerned, aroma hops need to be dry hopped so I do not worry there. Now flavor hops that are under 20 minutes in the boil, these need some adjustment. I typically move mine to FWH.

 

[Grinder12000]

How do you know it will be inferior beer? Have you ever compared the two methods?

Actually I have. The chill method seemed crisper and just tasted generally better. Now it was not a blind tasting so perhaps that might account or it but before your get you vain's all buzzed out and belligerent with attacks take a pill and relax for a bit.

 

[The Pol]

Actually I have. The chill method seemed crisper and just tasted generally better. Now it was not a blind tasting so perhaps that might account or it but before your get you vain's all buzzed out and belligerent with attacks take a pill and relax for a bit.

You are so right... so right.

 

[hal2814]

This is already done, all over the world, it is referred to as "no chill" brewing. Do a search here, plenty of threads about people who do this already. Here is an article I wrote on the topic:

Australian NO CHILL Brewing Technique TESTED | Brewer's Friend

You might refer to it as "no chill brewing" but refer to it as "brewing" and have for years We don't call it "immersion brewing" or "counterflow brewing," do we? "No chill" is just a possible variation in a small part of the brewing technique. It's not a fundamentally different type of brewing like all-grain vs. extract.

I have thought about posting a picture of those UN water jugs in the DIY section as a "Mother Nature Chiller" (complete with instructions, of course).

 

[chefchris]

I have thought about posting a picture of those UN water jugs in the DIY section as a "Mother Nature Chiller" (complete with instructions, of course).

I like this name. Rolls off the tongue better and it doesn't make your sentences look stupid like when you say, "I no chill".

 

[flyangler18]

Every week another no chill thread starts and it is getting really difficult to keep the information together.

If you use the report post button, it brings it to the mod's attention - perhaps you can request a thread merge?

Back to the topic at hand, perhaps truly adventurous souls can try piecing together a cool ship to facilitate more effective 'natural' cooling.

 

[The Pol]

You might refer to it as "no chill brewing" but refer to it as "brewing" and have for years We don't call it "immersion brewing" or "counterflow brewing," do we? "No chill" is just a possible variation in a small part of the brewing technique. It's not a fundamentally different type of brewing like all-grain vs. extract.

I have thought about posting a picture of those UN water jugs in the DIY section as a "Mother Nature Chiller" (complete with instructions, of course).

This is a joke right? I mean it is titled No Chill Brewing Technique, not No Chill Brewing... as if it were a type of brewing... right?
Regardless, it adds nothing to the content of this thread for those who care to explore this idea.

 

[The Pol]

If you use the report post button, it brings it to the mod's attention - perhaps you can request a thread merge?

Back to the topic at hand, perhaps truly adventurous souls can try piecing together a cool ship to facilitate more effective 'natural' cooling.

Excellent idea... done

 

[hal2814]

This is a joke right? I mean it is titled No Chill Brewing Technique, not No Chill Brewing... as if it were a type of brewing... right?
Regardless, it adds nothing to the content of this thread for those who care to explore this idea.

Right. That's why I put the smiley on it

EDIT: And as far as "content," I'm using a joke to point out how this technique is a very small part of the overall brewing experience. That's pretty important because some people on this post and others are getting really hung up on something that is unlikely to make or break a beer on its own.

 

[The Pol]

Right. That's why I put the smiley on it

Ok

just checking...

 

[BioBeing]

Unprecipitated proteins in solution serve as attachment/breeding sites for bacteria, and this is an obvious obstacle to shelf-stability. Even after fermentation and accounting for yeast, a beer is far from sterile. I've said before, though, that because the vast majority of homebrew is consumed quickly, this is a lesser (though no less important) consideration for most homebrewers.

As a PhD Biochemist myself with plenty of micro experience... this makes no sense.

First, a protein that remains in solution is not, by definition precipitated. Now, you can get soluble aggregates of proteins, which are (essentially) the beginnings of a precipitate...

But second (and importantly), a protein (in solution) is not going to serve as an attachment/breeding site for bacterial growth. Proteins, compared to bacteria, are still tiny. The proteins will provide food for the bacteria (along with the sugars), but not a nucleus for growth.

Now, it might be true that no-chill beers have more protein (nitrogen) in them? [I have no idea!] But this is going to provide more yeast food too, once the yeast is pitched...

Now, if you are worried about precipitated proteins, then surely a no-chill is going to be more like a with-chill where all the precipitated crap is poured into the fermentor? And if that decreases shelf-life of the beer, then maybe we need to be filtering (and not just whirlpooling or straining) before we pitch?

 

[yeoldebrewer]

BioBeing, Please stick around. We will need to better understand underlying mechanisms in order to make sense of what the results are telling us.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Just to bring this thread back to reality.
I chill just cuase that's what I have always done.......
Actually great thread, and I think this no chill movement may save me many hours in the future, once it's proven and I don't waste a batch I'll try it.
You all have fun now.

 

[Poincare]

mmmmm, botulism neurotoxins.....

be careful with this no-chill type of method, brothers.

although i guess if you HEAT sanitize then there isn't much to worry about.

 

[The Pol]

Just to bring this thread back to reality.
I chill just cuase that's what I have always done.......
Actually great thread, and I think this no chill movement may save me many hours in the future, once it's proven and I don't waste a batch I'll try it.
You all have fun now.

Proven? People have been doing it for a decade or more as a common practice.

 

[The Pol]

mmmmm, botulism neurotoxins.....

be careful with this no-chill type of method, brothers.

although i guess if you HEAT sanitize then there isn't much to worry about.

It has been used for a LONG time, no reported deaths to date.

 

[chefchris]

I just wanted to check in with this thread and let everyone know that I'm not dead.

Carry on.

 

[The Pol]

I just wanted to check in with this thread and let everyone know that I'm not dead.

Carry on.

Whew, glad to see you.

I served my no chill brews to another HBTer last night at my home. May he rest in peace

 

[BioBeing]

BioBeing, Please stick around. We will need to better understand underlying mechanisms in order to make sense of what the results are telling us.

Well, what results? flyangler seemed to be saying he thought (or the PhD microbiologist beer judge thought) that no-chill beers might be less stable (they were talking about POTENTIAL issues), but is this actually the case? Let us be sure of the phenomenon before we start looking for the cause of it.

 

[chefchris]

Whew, glad to see you.

I served my no chill brews to another HBTer last night at my home. May he rest in peace

We're all in this together. We gotta stay strong and have hope that at least a couple of us will live so they can hang around on the boards and convince people to drink the koolaid.

 

[The Pol]

Well, what results? flyangler seemed to be saying he thought (or the PhD microbiologist beer judge thought) that no-chill beers might be less stable (they were talking about POTENTIAL issues), but is this actually the case? Let us be sure of the phenomenon before we start looking for the cause of it.

Speculation is more fun than gathering facts.

There was a worry about the potential for copious chill haze in these beers, much time and effort was spent on speculation about that, DMS and botulism, when one only had to look at those who have been using the process for a decade or more, to see that the issue wasnt an issue at all.

Many of todays questions can be answered by simply going to the Aussie Homebrew boards. After all, chilling wort is out of the norm for them, not the other way around.

 

[Dwain]

O.K., I've read this thread and done a search for no-chill. My head is about ready to explode. I use a 7.5 gal sanke to ferment my 5 gal. batches in (the Aussie threads I read, they are using the cubes). I've got a few questions and I'll post them here. If you can answer them or point me to a post, I would appreciate it.
1) Does no-chill cause chill haze to be worse?

2)If I cool my wort to ~105F on one pass through my cooler, can I put it in the Sanke and cork it, leave it overnight (or 2 days) in my 70F ale room, aerate then pitch my dry yeast slurry into it, install air lock and be good to go?

3)Do I need to worry about the thin walls of the sanke by cooling it from 105F to 70F collapsing?

I'm sure that I'll have some other questions but for now this will be a big help. Thanks - Dwain

 

[Edcculus]

1) Does no-chill cause chill haze to be worse?

No

2)If I cool my wort to ~105F on one pass through my cooler, can I put it in the Sanke and cork it, leave it overnight (or 2 days) in my 70F ale room, aerate then pitch my dry yeast slurry into it, install air lock and be good to go?

The point of No Chill is that the fermentation chamber/vessel is heat sterilized. You could do that, but it defeats the purpose and some advantages in the no chill method.

 

[The Pol]

No

The point of No Chill is that the fermentation chamber/vessel is heat sterilized. You could do that, but it defeats the purpose and some advantages in the no chill method.

This dude is EXACTLY right...

Here is what happens to beer clarity when you dont chill your wort:

It doenst make your beer clearer, but the myth that it makes it cloudy is just that.

 

[HoppyDaze]

so I assume the wort sealed air tight? It seems that if you didnt do that then you would get wild yeast infections?

 

[chefchris]

so I assume the wort sealed air tight? It seems that if you didnt do that then you would get wild yeast infections?

This dude is EXACTLY right...

You'll also notice when you No Chill Brew D) that not only will it make your primary suck in on itself, but also your glassware.

More fun no chill facts later.

 

[Dwain]

The point of No Chill is that the fermentation chamber/vessel is heat sterilized. You could do that, but it defeats the purpose and some advantages in the no chill method.

Oh, I thought the purpose of no chill was not having to get the wort down to pitching temp. by putting it through another chiller.
I don't want to hijack this thread and will move it to another thread if I need to. But, the reason I'm looking in to this is because I really don't like putting my wort through a CFC or high volume chiller. The chance for infection goes up. I don't mind an IM but they take a long time to cool down the wort, especially 10 gal. If I can rack my boil kettle into my sanitized Sanke, seal it and let it cool down to pitching temp in a day or so, it's easier for me and saves a lot of work. I can even aerate it wth O2 from my torch right before I pitch. Thanks Guys - Dwain

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Oh, I thought the purpose of no chill was not having to get the wort down to pitching temp. by putting it through another chiller.
I don't want to hijack this thread and will move it to another thread if I need to. But, the reason I'm looking in to this is because I really don't like putting my wort through a CFC or high volume chiller. The chance for infection goes up. I don't mind an IM but they take a long time to cool down the wort, especially 10 gal. If I can rack my boil kettle into my sanitized Sanke, seal it and let it cool down to pitching temp in a day or so, it's easier for me and saves a lot of work. I can even aerate it wth O2 from my torch right before I pitch. Thanks Guys - Dwain

If you use the CFC, recirculating through it for the last 15-20 minutes of your boil ensure your sterility before turning on your hose and chilling it.

Otherwise if you are looking at no chill, if you have a container that you have a way to seal (like a sanke), you can go straight from the boil kettle to your container at boiling temps, let it cool for 12-24 hours, then pitch with little to no problem.

As far as infection risk, with proper technique, it should be about the same between using a chiller and no chill. I have used a CFC far more than I have no chilled and have never had any infection, even though some times my sanitation suffers as my energy decreases and BAC increases through out a brew day

 

[Dwain]

Thanks for the info, guys. I gravity through my HVC so I can't recirc very easily. I think I'll try no chill this week end. - Dwain