Cooler and liabilty for using hot liquid

[FoulMouth]

I know this has been brought up but would the small home brew supply stores be in trouble if the was any problems using the cooler systems? The cooler companies like rubbermaid tell you not to use it for hot liquids no questions. So if the cooler company is covering their butts then the small brew stores would be held responsible for any damages the coolers may cause due to them advertising that they be used that way. Is this correct and if so why are they taking this chance when there are other options for home brewers even though not as cost effective. I know the odds are slim but with the right lawyer a 5 gallon home brewer could be a 30 bbl small brewery overnight. Lol.

 

[TopherM]

You can't sue because someone told you to put hot water in a cooler and you burned yourself. You can't sue anyone because they suggested you to do something that got you hurt, unless they are a doctor or dentist or some other type of licensed, bonded, and insured professional.

Be logical. If someone told you to jump off a cliff.......are they liable for your death.

People tell me to go f**k myself all the time. If I did as they suggested, and hurt my back or more likely my wrist, would they have to pay my medical bills? Cronic carpel tunnel bills for 50+ years......

 

[SenorPepe]

People tell me to go f**k myself all the time. If I did as they suggested, and hurt my back or more likely my wrist, would they have to pay my medical bills? Cronic carpel tunnel bills for 50+ years......

Made me lol.

 

[sonex]

You can't sue because someone told you to put hot water in a cooler and you burned yourself. You can't sue anyone because they suggested you to do something that got you hurt, unless they are a doctor or dentist or some other type of licensed, bonded, and insured professional.

Be logical. If someone told you to jump off a cliff.......are they liable for your death.

People tell me to go f**k myself all the time. If I did as they suggested, and hurt my back or more likely my wrist, would they have to pay my medical bills? Cronic carpel tunnel bills for 50+ years......

I don't believe this is true. If you build a mash tun out of a cooler and you sell and market it as a mash tun you are responsible if it fails and some one is injured. this is true of all products brought to market. Just look at the auto industry.

 

[SenorPepe]

I don't believe this is true. If you build a mash tun out of a cooler and you sell and market it as a mash tun you are responsible if it fails and some one is injured. this is true of all products brought to market. Just look at the auto industry.

In the auto industry, do middle men (salesmen/showrooms) get sued for suggesting ways to use the end product? Because that would seem to be the analogue if I'm thinking clearly.

 

[FoulMouth]

Yeah a cup of coffee not labeled hot is not stupid yet won someone millions. People do stupid things i understand but, if the makers say no and i sell it saying yes how are the brew shops not liable. This is extreme but if i sell a blender and say do no put your hand in the thing but the store i whole sale or that buys and resells it says it ideal for removing a hang nail then sells it. No were do they even inform the cust. That rubbermaid says not to use it for hot liquids.

 

[VladOfTrub]

Just my .02...The guy that designed and built the cooler mentions not for use with hot liquids. Now, if someone (LHBS) decides to alter a cooler in such a way, to be used outside of what it was designed for. Then sells the altered product to a brewer, and then, that person gets scalded, because the product failed, due to improper use. I believe that a lawyer would be knocking on someones door. If someone takes it upon themself to alter something beyond its original form and function. That person carries all liability, if the redesigned product causes damage.

 

[FoulMouth]

Just my .02...The guy that designed and built the cooler mentions not for use with hot liquids. Now, if someone (LHBS) decides to alter a cooler in such a way, to be used outside of what it was designed for. Then sells the altered product to a brewer, and then, that person gets scalded, because the product failed, due to improper use. I believe that a lawyer would be knocking on someones door. If someone takes it upon themself to alter something beyond its original form and function. That person carries all liability, if the redesigned product causes damage.

Thank you that makes sense if they sold the coolers as coolers wink, wink then if would have a better chance or even post a warning from rubbermaid.

 

[morticaixavier]

You CAN sue anyone, anytime for anything. Whether you will win or not is a different story.

 

[emjay]

In the auto industry, do middle men (salesmen/showrooms) get sued for suggesting ways to use the end product? Because that would seem to be the analogue if I'm thinking clearly.

Not really comparable. The cooler setup would be sold *entirely for that specific purpose*... it wouldn't be the same as merely "suggesting" something.

It's more like if you buy a car and the brakes stop working all of a sudden while you're in traffic and you end up smashing into another car... you're using the car in a manner that's expected, and indeed, the car is actually intended for, and yet it fails to be as safe as one should reasonably expect, causing injury.

And "reasonable" is really the acid test here. If the MLT hasn't been modified by the customer and it fails in some way that injures them, the LHBS could very likely be on the hook. Again, any *reasonable* person would expect a cooler MLT being sold at a LHBS to be intended for use as an MLT as it's primary (and likely sole) purpose! That's all that matters.

 

[emjay]

Thank you that makes sense if they sold the coolers as coolers wink, wink then if would have a better chance or even post a warning from rubbermaid.

Not likely. Again, any reasonable person would expect that a cooler, modified like an MLT and sold by a homebrew store, is being sold as an MLT for the purpose of mashing, even if the shop simply calls it a "cooler". And it would be a simple matter to demonstrate this to a judge or jury. For the same reason, posting Ribbermaid's warning would accomplish nothing, since it's clearly being sold for a use that contradicts their warning.

Relying on wink, wink, to legally cover your ass is generally a terrible idea.

 

[SenorPepe]

Not really comparable. The cooler setup would be sold *entirely for that specific purpose*... it wouldn't be the same as merely "suggesting" something.

It's more like if you buy a car and the brakes stop working all of a sudden while you're in traffic and you end up smashing into another car... you're using the car in a manner that's expected, and indeed, the car is actually intended for, and yet it fails to be as safe as one should reasonably expect, causing injury.

And "reasonable" is really the acid test here. If the MLT hasn't been modified by the customer and it fails in some way that injures them, the LHBS could very likely be on the hook. Again, any *reasonable* person would expect a cooler MLT being sold at a LHBS to be intended for use as an MLT as it's primary (and likely sole) purpose! That's all that matters.

I see what you mean. I kind of misunderstood. I don't think my LHBS sells mash tuns out of coolers they modified themselves. I agree those kinds of dealies would give one a reasonable expectation of use as an MLT.

 

[emjay]

I see what you mean. I kind of misunderstood. I don't think my LHBS sells mash tuns out of coolers they modified themselves. I agree those kinds of dealies would give one a reasonable expectation of use as an MLT.

I don't think I've seen homebrew stores sell completely unmodified coolers (since I doubt they can compete with HD, WallyWorld, Amazon, etc), but if they did, it could just as easily be for a jockeybox, or even simply to function as-is and keep bottles/cans cool (if they sell other beer-related items than just homebrew stuff), and so they really wouldn't have to worry about it as long as they don't make any actual mention of turning it into a mash tun.

 

[FoulMouth]

I have seen coolers being sold online at brew shops but were $85 which is stupid.