Converting to All-grain

[trufleshufle13]

So i have this recipe me and a friend of mine have been tinkering with. we did a 5 gallon batch and it came out almost perfect (for what we wanted) but the hops weren't exact and we wanted a little more Alc%.

but we also wanted it to last longer then a night so we bumped up to a 10 gallon batch.

Its an IPA

the new recipe was
12 lbs Briess DME golden light
3lb - Breiss DME Sparkling Amber
2 lb - Cara-Vienna

3 oz cascade
2 oz centennial
4 oz willamette
6 oz citra

it isnt ready to keg yet, and i know im jumping the gun. but this was an expenive batch and i know all grain can be much cheaper. i was wondering if anyone could convert this to an all grain bill for me. and be more then welcome to throw in any extra tips when switching to all grain.

also can i still use pellets for all grain or should i switch to whole hops?
can i still use the same packets of dry ale yeast?
ive also seen boiling the hops in a grain bag the same as you would when extract brewing with grains. is this a common practice or should i just stick to dumping them in?

 

[3PegBrew]

So i have this recipe me and a friend of mine have been tinkering with. we did a 5 gallon batch and it came out almost perfect (for what we wanted) but the hops weren't exact and we wanted a little more Alc%.

but we also wanted it to last longer then a night so we bumped up to a 10 gallon batch.

Its an IPA

the new recipe was
12 lbs Briess DME golden light
3lb - Breiss DME Sparkling Amber
2 lb - Cara-Vienna

3 oz cascade
2 oz centennial
4 oz willamette
6 oz citra

it isnt ready to keg yet, and i know im jumping the gun. but this was an expenive batch and i know all grain can be much cheaper. i was wondering if anyone could convert this to an all grain bill for me. and be more then welcome to throw in any extra tips when switching to all grain.

also can i still use pellets for all grain or should i switch to whole hops?
can i still use the same packets of dry ale yeast?
ive also seen boiling the hops in a grain bag the same as you would when extract brewing with grains. is this a common practice or should i just stick to dumping them in?

Take your DME and X2

so:
24 LB base pale Malt
6 LB Crystal (L value will depend on how dark you want)
2 LB Cara

27% less HBU for hops

Am I correct about this guys?

I just dump my hops in at the determined boil time i.e. 60, 30, 15 etc.
I don't believe in bags.

If you are using 5 gal batch 1 Packet of yeast is sufficient. If it's more than 5 gal, use one packet, let finish fermentation. When it stops, add the next packet.

 

[3PegBrew]

Also, if you're able to make 2 5 gal batches and put them in two fermenters. This will be more sufficient I believe....

 

[trufleshufle13]

so basically just x by 2? and get the grains that are a closest match? how do you know what grains match with the DME ive chosen.

 

[3PegBrew]

The base for All Grain is 2 row or 6 Row Malt. The Row will depend upon how much conversion you want done and filtration. The 6 row will filter better, but will not give enough conversion. The 2 Row will convert more but not filter as well.

Crystal is your basic specialty grain that will add color and partial flavor to your beer. The Higher the L value the darker the beer.

 

[3PegBrew]

I must add to my reply that I prefer using 2 row Malt. When I am done mashing for my 60-90 minutes I do a run off for a few times. This is when you let some wort out very slowly. Open the valve slowly, and close it after collected a few ounces. Place the run off wort back into the mash. As you do this you'll notice bits of grain possibly) and cloudiness. After 3-5 run offs you'll be fine to sparge.

Anytime you add Water to your mash you should do a run off to recycle the wort and help pack the grains to add to proper filtration.

 

[trufleshufle13]

so then the only malt that gives it a specific flavor is the cara? would i dump that in the mash tun with the rest of the grains or steep as usual. should i look into more flavorful malts?

 

[trufleshufle13]

thanx man i appreciate all this. i was always too intimidated to actually try all grain but then i just watched a couple of home made how to videos to get a basic idea and realized it wasnt as complicated as i thought.

thanx again

 

[Docjowles]

Edit: Doh I should have refreshed the page before replying

You can do this pretty easily with any brewing software (Beersmith, Pro Mash, Beer Tools, etc). At an average of 20 bucks they are a great investment and almost mandatory if you want to succeed at all grain. I use Beersmith personally.

A good way to think about all grain is that you are making the extract yourself. Once you reach the boil stage, all grain and extract brewing are exactly the same. The reason you see people doing lots of fancy crap to their all grain beers is that if you go all grain you are probably pretty serious about brewing and willing to go the extra mile for quality. Using liquid yeast, making starters, full volume boils and aerating your wort will help your current extract beers just as much as they help all grain.

To get about the same OG you'll want to sub 20 lbs of a base malt for the light extract (US 2 row or UK 2 row/maris otter depending on what style you're shooting for) and maybe 5lbs of a light crystal/caramel malt in the 20 lovibond neighborhood. Leave the hops and Cara-vienna alone.

The reason people use whole hops is that they are easier to filter out. They generally get less utilization than pellets so if you decide to use whole hops you will need to add more by weight to get the same effect. I still use pellets but haven't figured out a good way to filter them so my beers are cloudy as hell. Anyone want to link a good thread?

 

[3PegBrew]

so then the only malt that gives it a specific flavor is the cara? would i dump that in the mash tun with the rest of the grains or steep as usual. should i look into more flavorful malts?

Cara Vienna (as far as I know) is almost like doubling the Crystal Malt. Difference being the Cara is Belgian.

Since both grains need to be at a max of 15% of the grist, I think you should pick one or the other. Either way, those grains will contribute an amber color (depending on the L value) and a slight caramel after flavor to the maltyness.

The cool thing about all grain is it's like looking at a spice rack and trying to decide what tastes good when you put them together. Do you want a nice malty amber wheat beer? Do you want a roasted coffee nut flavor beer? How hoppy do you want it? Maybe add citrus (this can be done with cascade hops). It depends on what flavors you want.

If you want nut in your beer add a small amount of Chocolate grain. Be aware Chocolate will darken the beer tremendously if used too much.

If you want to aim for a nice and simple wheat beer with a touch of hops, add some wheat, or better yet some honey malt (this will add a nice honey flavor but not heavy).

 

[3PegBrew]

http://www.brewsupplies.com/grain_profiles.htm

here is something I first used when I made the transition to AG

Also, most brew stores will have a note on the bags of grains listing the %of the grist and what it contributes to the beer flavor, body ,or head retention.

In my humble opinion, I suggest you go simple for your first all grain batch.

Try to make a nice Bavarian Wheat beer.

I would also stay at 5 gallons just in case.

 

[Docjowles]

You can also seriously just pop a few grains in your mouth to get a feel for what they taste like. It won't be exactly the same because hops and yeast will change it up but it will at least get you in the ballpark. Eat some chocolate malt and you'll instantly taste a stout and know it would be terrible in a pilsener.

 

[3PegBrew]

You can also seriously just pop a few grains in your mouth to get a feel for what they taste like. It won't be exactly the same because hops and yeast will change it up but it will at least get you in the ballpark. Eat some chocolate malt and you'll instantly taste a stout and know it would be terrible in a pilsener.

Haha I never tried that....but it's true!

That's an awesome quote

 

[3PegBrew]

here is a simple All grain batch
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/bee-cave-brewery-bavarian-hefeweizen-35679/

This guy used a starter, it's recommended but not necessary for a good beer. It's necessary for an AMAZING beer though.

If you do not have brewing software here is a simple way to remember temps.

In order to get a proper temp of 153 in your Mash tun heat your strike water to about 169F.
Your grains will be around 80F.

For Mashing out (stopping the conversion) heat the water to 180-185F. This will get your mash to reach 175F.

When sparging all you need is hot water, it doesn't not have to be boiling water.

 

[lumpher]

2-row is kind of like the flour in a cooking recipe. it's there for the bulk, or in the case of homebrew, the fermentables ( like plain light malt ). most anything extra makes up the flavor

 

[mikeho]

I've noticed that you get about a 50% savings going from extract to grain (e.g. 15 lbs of DME runs around $50, the equivalent, about 25 lbs of grain maybe $25, if you get it in less than bulk, much less if you buy bulk, but do you include the cost of a mill?) but you'll get a much greater savings buying hops in bulk. Your recipe calls for almost a pound of hops , which would be $2-3/oz, or about $32-48, vs. $8-12 per lb in bulk, about 1/4 the price. Also bulk hops are easier to store than bulk grain, but I'll get there eventually.

 

[3PegBrew]

I've noticed that you get about a 50% savings going from extract to grain (e.g. 15 lbs of DME runs around $50, the equivalent, about 25 lbs of grain maybe $25, if you get it in less than bulk, much less if you buy bulk, but do you include the cost of a mill?) but you'll get a much greater savings buying hops in bulk. Your recipe calls for almost a pound of hops , which would be $2-3/oz, or about $32-48, vs. $8-12 per lb in bulk, about 1/4 the price. Also bulk hops are easier to store than bulk grain, but I'll get there eventually.

Well put. Once you go AG it will be very hard to consider doing extract ever again. It's fun, it's cheap, and it smells way better IMO than warming up a can of goo.

 

[trufleshufle13]

(e.g. 15 lbs of DME runs around $50, the equivalent, about 25 lbs of grain maybe $25, if you get it in less than bulk, much less if you buy bulk, but do you include the cost of a mill?) y.

what do u mean by mill? doesnt the store usually do it for free. if not i have a and old style coffee grinder i picked up from a garage sale for this exact reason would that work?

or if i need to go bigger i have a grape grinder that was used when me and my father made wine. would that be better?

 

[kcpaige89]

You only need a mill if you buy grain in bulk, because storing 50lbs of milled grain is not a good idea.

 

[trufleshufle13]

would a grape crusher work?

 

[mikeho]

I was just trying to illustrate the difference in cost between extract and all grain. The cost difference is most apparent if you buy 50 lb sacks of grain instead of 10-20 lbs at a time, which you could have milled for you. If you buy bulk grain, at some point, you have to include the cost of a mill into the price comparison. Milling grain:

 

[3PegBrew]

I was just trying to illustrate the difference in cost between extract and all grain. The cost difference is most apparent if you buy 50 lb sacks of grain instead of 10-20 lbs at a time, which you could have milled for you. If you buy bulk grain, at some point, you have to include the cost of a mill into the price comparison. Milling grain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqDQDxuj_0A

I used to think I needed to buy a Mill before I went AG, but found out that Majority of stores will let you use their Mill if you are a customer!

That is nice for a budgeted brewer. Mine also gives me extra big bags so I can dump all my milled grain into a big bag ready to go for Mashing later.