Converting Step Infusion Mash to Single Infusion

[FrankCazabon]

Hi,
I've got a simple mash tun made out of a cooler with a false bottom so I can only raise the temperature by adding hot water. I'm trying to do a recipe which calls for this mash schedule:

This recipe uses a step infusion mash. Use enough water to have a moderately thick mash (1.5 qts./lb. or 3.1 L/kg). Mash in the Pilsner, Vienna, and dark Munich malts at 131 °F (55 °C) and hold for 15 minutes for a protein rest. Raise temperature through infusion or direct heat to 144 °F (62 °C) then hold for a beta amylase rest for 30 minutes. Raise temperature to 158 °F (70 °C) for an alpha amylase rest and hold for 15 minutes. Add the crystal and dark malts. Begin recirculating, raise the mash temperature to 169 °F (76 °C) for a mash out and recirculate for 15 minutes.

If I try to adjust the mash schedule (in BeerSmith 2) I keep ending up with a negative amount of water to add for the mash out.

What do you suggest I do? Shall I just go with a simple infusion at 66 or 67 °C?

 

[Bassman2003]

It is a challenge as it takes a lot of boiling water for all of the steps which is a finite amount. I would say drop the 131F step. Dough in for the 144F step with a thick enough mash to make the other steps. I would run the 144F step a little longer because it is so thick with a few stirs to let all of the enzymes get a chance at the water.

The purpose of the "Hoch Kurz" step mash is to create a wort that yields more attenuation vs a single infusion. This is a complex topic because what it really means is more beta amylase attenuation (144F rest) which includes some other goodies like limit dextrinase.

What type of beer is this?

 

[FrankCazabon]

Thanks, it's a Biere de Garde

 

[kevin58]

I have the ability to do step mashes but I started out with the cooler mash tun and I ignored step mash instructions and simply mashed between 148°F and 156°F. My Goldilocks zone was 152°F.

 

[mac_1103]

Why not skip the mash out?

 

[FrankCazabon]

Why not skip the mash out?

The mash out stops all enzymes working and helps to ensure the lautering goes smoothly, right? What would be the consequence of leaving it out?

 

[mac_1103]

If you mash until conversion is complete then inactivating the enzymes doesn't change anything. I can't really speak to the debate about viscosity and lautering since I'm a BIABer.

 

[dmtaylor]

Just do a single infusion at 65 C. Add up all the times and mash that long. So... 75 minutes. Easy as pie.

Also, just as @mac_1103 suggested, you can safely skip the mashout. If you want to add dark grains and crystal near the end of the mash, that's fine. But no need to aim for 169 F (76 C) because you're going to hit that easily anyway after you collect your wort and bring it up to the boil. We aren't commercial brewers. Mashout is nearly worthless for most homebrewers unless your crush of the grains is really bad to where your conversion efficiency is terrible. If you are getting >75% brewhouse efficiency, you're fine, and can and should skip the mashout step. There are no consequences really unless your crush and/or mixing are terrible, which shouldn't be a problem for most of us.

 

[FrankCazabon]

Mashout is nearly worthless for most homebrewers unless your crush of the grains is really bad to where your conversion efficiency is terrible. If you are getting >75% brewhouse efficiency, you're fine, and can and should skip the mashout step. There are no consequences really unless your crush and/or mixing are terrible, which shouldn't be a problem for most of us.

Looking back at my BH efficiency as reported by BeerSmith, it varies between 70 and 72%.

Why would commercial brewers use a mash out? Just to ensure consistency between the brews?

 

[IslandLizard]

You can step mash in the kettle.
Raise the temps slowly with direct heat while stirring and scraping the bottom well, to prevent scorching while heating the whole mash gradually to the next step temp.

Putting some insulation around the kettle (and on the lid) reduces heat loss.

When the mash has completed, move it to your cooler for lautering and sparging.

 

[dmtaylor]

Why would commercial brewers use a mash out? Just to ensure consistency between the brews?

It might take a commercial brewery an hour or two to runoff and bring the batch to a boil, which could result in extended conversion and very low finishing gravity or higher alcohol than intended. Raising temperature to mash out to kill enzymes gives them additional time to complete runoff and sparge without concern for FG or higher ABV than intended. Mashout can also provide an efficiency boost for some, but again I say, as long as the crush is good, this really shouldn't be necessary, whether at home or commercial brewing.

 

[Bassman2003]

Looking back at my BH efficiency as reported by BeerSmith, it varies between 70 and 72%.

Why would commercial brewers use a mash out? Just to ensure consistency between the brews?

Commercial brewers often fly sparge which benefits from lower viscosity. The 172F step does thin out the mash a bit as well as finishing off the enzymatic activity. Stopping the enzymes is important at the commercial level because they often will put 2-3 mashes into one boil kettle. So the first two mashes just sit there until the third is complete. So you can see if the mashes are still active they will go out their expected range while sitting. We as homebrewers do not brew this way, so the mash out holds less importance.

Do the best with your equipment and that is all you can do. I would say, making your beta rest so thick that it might be counterproductive in order to execute all of the infusions might not be the best approach. Either do a single infusion that accentuates the beta range for 75-90 min. or do the 144F & 158F steps and call it a day.

One thing I would suggest is to get away from mash times and instead shoot for gravity targets. Meaning if you want an attenuative beer, aim for 85 to 90% of your pre-boil gravity number to be reached in your beta step. Then move on to the 158F step until you reach pre-boil gravity and move to the boil. This way you are making sure you get the beer you want rather than just arbitrary times that might be too short.

 

[FrankCazabon]

You can step mash in the kettle.
Raise the temps slowly with direct heat while stirring and scraping the bottom well, to prevent scorching while heating the whole mash gradually to the next step temp.

Putting some insulation around the kettle (and on the lid) reduces heat loss.

When the mash has completed, move it to your cooler for lautering and sparging.

I had considered this but decided against it as I don't think my back could handle picking up the kettle and dumping it all into the cooler but thinking again, I could transfer part of it at a time using a smaller pot.

 

[IslandLizard]

I could transfer part of it at a time using a smaller pot.

That's what I use, a 3/4 or 1 gallon pot with a handle.
Before transferring I do a mashout to lock in the sugar/dextrin profile.

 

[sibelman]

If @FrankCazabon wants to come close to this step mash schedule, would it be sensible to consider decoction (scoop out some grain and liquid from the mash vessel, heat on the stove, return to the mash vessel to raise the temp.)?

 

[IslandLizard]

If @FrankCazabon wants to come close to this step mash schedule, would it be sensible to consider decoction (scoop out some grain and liquid from the mash vessel, heat on the stove, return to the mash vessel to raise the temp.)?

[EDITS] Aside from a decoction mash having a different purpose, it's also much more involved than simply step mashing the whole mash over direct/indirect heat.
Once completed, transfer the whole mash to the tun for lautering and sparging.

That's what I've been doing for cereal and step mashes. With the thick, tri-ply bottomed kettle on an induction plate I can heat the mash at 2000-2400W while stirring and scraping the bottom to prevent potential scorching.

 

[Spartan1979]

If @FrankCazabon wants to come close to this step mash schedule, would it be sensible to consider decoction (scoop out some grain and liquid from the mash vessel, heat on the stove, return to the mash vessel to raise the temp.)?

If you wanted to do this, keep in mind that it's a longer process than simply infusing the mash with additional water.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you wanted to do this, keep in mind that it's a longer process than simply infusing the mash with additional water.

... and forego the mashout step.

Or if he insists, perform the mashout by heating the mash in the kettle. Then return it to the mash tun for lautering and sparging.

 

[mac_1103]

Since the OP's problem seems to be ending up with too much volume, how about a compromise between infusion and decoction? Run off some of the liquid through the false bottom, heat that and return it to the tun to increase the temperature for the next step. Would that be sort of a manual RIMS? I have no idea what the implications of such an approach would be.

 

[sibelman]

I have no idea what the implications of such an approach would be.

Indeed, the effects of any of these methods would be at least a bit different, and the effort for each various considerably.

For myself, I've only been willing to add process and equipment changes if I somehow believe the beer will be better, and is the change isn't too hard or costly. (example: closed transfers yes, mash cap no).

 

[IslandLizard]

how about a compromise between infusion and decoction? Run off some of the liquid through the false bottom, heat that and return it to the tun to increase the temperature for the next step.

That would work as long as the drawn-off wort doesn't get too hot, denaturing enzymes that are still needed for the next mash step(s).
Same is true when heating the mash directly, in the kettle.

 

[mac_1103]

That would work as long as the drawn-off wort doesn't get too hot, denaturing enzymes that are still needed for the next mash step(s).

Or as long as enough diastatic power remains in the mash tun to continue converting the remaining starches. Just like a decoction, right?

 

[sibelman]

doesn't get too hot, denaturing enzymes

I've never done a decoction, but have wondered about this.

 

[doug293cz]

Or as long as enough diastatic power remains in the mash tun to continue converting the remaining starches. Just like a decoction, right?

I've never done a decoction, but have wondered about this.

I've seen decoction schedules that call for sacc rests of the decocted portion prior to bringing that portion to a boil, and denaturing all of the enzymes in that portion. This mitigates the loss of diastatic power to a great extent.

Brew on

 

[Spartan1979]

I've never done a decoction, but have wondered about this.

You also try to pull the thick part of the mash leaving much of the liquid behind so there are lots of enzymes remaining behind.

 

[sibelman]

You also try to pull the thick part of the mash leaving much of the liquid behind so there are lots of enzymes remaining behind.

Good to know, though I don't know why there would be more enzymes in the liquids vs. (semi-)solids in the mash.
Main thing: only some of the enzymes are deactivated. More than enough are believed to survive. Especially if the pulled portion gets some saccharification time, as @doug293cz mentioned.

 

[doug293cz]

Good to know, though I don't know why there would be more enzymes in the liquids vs. (semi-)solids in the mash.
Main thing: only some of the enzymes are deactivated. More than enough are believed to survive. Especially if the pulled portion gets some saccharification time, as @doug293cz mentioned.

From what I have read, almost all of the enzymes are in the liquid wort shortly after dough in, as they start out in the surface layers of the grain kernels. Normally a decoction "pull" is about 1/3 of the total mash volume, so even tho all of the enzymes in the decocted portion are denatured, if the enzymes were uniformly distributed between the grits and wort, you would still have about 2/3 of the enzymes that existed before you pulled the decoction. But, if you pull a decoction with more grain, and less wort, you will have even more enzymes remaining.

Brew on

 

[FrankCazabon]

Thanks all. I'm trying to use my kettle (pot) for the mash today. Will let you all know how it goes

 

[IslandLizard]

Normally a decoction "pull" is about 1/3 of the total mash volume

Mind, you're not pulling 1/3 of the total mash volume (grist and wort). You're only pulling 1/3 of the thicker part of the mash, being mostly the grist with some wort, using a strainer, a sieve, or colander. Most of the liquid (the wort) stays in the mash tun, converting.

That thicker part being decocted goes through several rest steps, including 2 saccharification rests, before it's finished off with a boil to create melanoidins. That whole boiling grist mix is then returned to the mash tun waiting on the side, bringing it to it's next rest step.
One can pull a 2nd decoction doing the same, and sometimes even a third.