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Control power on 2250 watt 120v element

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Can that diagram be ran without the rtd inputs, and just use the ezboil for element output? Or does it require the rtd to run properly? I’m not interested in maintaining a temp right now, but would like the system to be upgradable in the future. Also, is the auber dspr120 able to be swapped for any other PID, such as an inkbird, or is that not even the same thing? (Cheaper on Amazon)
No, the EZBoil controllers (or any other PID) will not operate without a temperature input. This is a "fail safe" feature. You wouldn't want a controller to be calling for full power in the case of a missing or failed temperature sensor.

You could swap the EZBoil for any other PID with a manual output mode. Not all PID's (e.g. the MyPin TA4) have manual modes. The advantage of the EZBoil is the improved control algorithm (compared to the classic PID algorithm) which for our applications is able to hold temps rock solid, with essentially no overshoot. There are lots of threads on HBT about how to get a PID tuned so that it heats fast, doesn't overshoot, and doesn't oscillate around the set point. EZBoils don't require tuning. The power adjusting knob (for manually set power output) is, in my opinion, more intuitive than pushing buttons to change the power setting. I wouldn't use anything but an EZBoil myself, but you are free to make your own choices.

Note that the terminal assignments for different PID models are not the same, so you would have to figure out what wire goes where for anything other than an EZBoil (DSPRxxx.)

Brew on :mug:
 
That's correct. A PID, at least the type generally used for e-Brewing, only turn the element 100% on or off. As the set point is reached you will see it cycle on and off frequently. There is another form of ssr called an ssvr that can be used for controlling power to the element. That is probably what the Aubers power regulator uses.

i know that's why i had to short my 1500w hot plate to always on, and use my fan speed controller for temp control, i even plug it into a kill-a-watt meter for real time wattage usage. voltage regulation works great!

doesn't even get real hot like a resistance style regulator, and their cheap. picked up my 1500w fan speed controller for $16...


(sorry if i'm missing the point of all this):oops:
 
That's correct. A PID, at least the type generally used for e-Brewing, only turn the element 100% on or off. As the set point is reached you will see it cycle on and off frequently. There is another form of ssr called an ssvr that can be used for controlling power to the element. That is probably what the Aubers power regulator uses.

Most PID's used in brewing use a form of Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), where the pulse being modulated is the gating control signal, not the output waveform. The typical minimum pulse cycle times are usually 1 second (MyPin's) or 2 seconds (Auber PID's). If we look at a 1 second cycle, then at a 25% gate pulse width is 0.25 seconds, and this would turn the power on for 0.25 seconds, and off for 0.75 seconds. In 0.25 seconds you get 15 power cycles out of the 60 that are available in the 1 second cycle time. This means power is on for 15 cycles, then off for 45 cycles, on for another 15 cycles, etc. With this form of power control the power delivered is linear with the power control setting (i.e. if you set the control at 25%, you get 25% power.)

SSVR's use a different type of pulse width modulation, called Phase Angle Modulation, where the pulse cycle time is 1/2 the AC power cycle time (for 60 Hz power, the pulse cycle time would be 1/120 second.) In phase angle modulation, the power is turned on for a portion of each AC half cycle. The on-time in each half cycle is linear with the control setting, but since the voltage varies from 0 to max back to 0 in each half cycle, the power delivered is not linear with control setting. At a setting of 25% you get less than 25% power, at 50% setting you get 50% power, and at 75% setting you get more than 75% power. And finally, SSVR's create more electrical noise since they do not employ 0 voltage turn on, whereas the other power modulation modes do.

Here are some example Phase Angle Modulation voltage waveforms:

Phase Angle Control - cropped.png


The Auber EZBoils (DSPRxxx) controllers use a form of pulse count modulation that is referred to as Burst Mode Control. It turns on the power for full cycles, but varies the number of cycles turned on out of 100 cycles. At 25% power setting, it turns on for 25 AC cycles and off for 75 cycles. However, instead of being 25 on and then 75 off, it is 1 on 3 off, repeated 25 times. Compare this to the 15 on followed by 45 off cycles provided by the 1 second cycle time PWM. The effective pulse cycle time for the Burst Mode control is 1/15 second, so it provides more even heating than the PWM.

Brew on :mug:
 
I was going to suggest that you could just plug a probe into the ezboil and leave it inside the control box you make up just to satisfy the unit's need for it to operate. Then I figured that it's a stupid idea. If you go so far as to build an EZboil based controller, the last 5% of your effort would be putting that probe in the pot and making full use of the wonders of the EZboil. If you can swing the cost, just do it.
 
Buy a 240 volt element of the same wattage, a three way switch (SPDT), a regular switch (SPST) and a diode. Connect the diode between the terminals of the SPST switch. Connect one side of that to Red (+120V) in a 240 V circuit. Connect the other side to one side of the heater. Connect the other side of the heater to the center terminal of the SPDT switch. Connect the other terminals to, respectively, Black (-120V) and White (neutral). When Black is selected 240V are applied to the heater and, with the second switch turned on (so that the diode is shorted) its rated output is produced. When the SPDT switch is flipped to White 120 V is applied and the heat output drops to 1/4 of the rating. Turning the SPST off forces current to go through the diode which it only does on alternate half cycles so the power drops in half. Thus you have full, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 power available for the cost of two switches and a diode.

You would need diodes capable of handling 200 V reverse break-down voltage, as well as 15 to 25 amps forward current (depending on your heater).
 
The Auber EZBoils (DSPRxxx) controllers use a form of pulse count modulation that is referred to as Burst Mode Control. It turns on the power for full cycles, but varies the number of cycles turned on out of 100 cycles. At 25% power setting, it turns on for 25 AC cycles and off for 75 cycles. However, instead of being 25 on and then 75 off, it is 1 on 3 off, repeated 25 times. Compare this to the 15 on followed by 45 off cycles provided by the 1 second cycle time PWM. The effective pulse cycle time for the Burst Mode control is 1/15 second, so it provides more even heating than the PWM.

Good description. Except there would be no difference in the "eveness" of the heating due to the thermal mass, as well as lag of a resistive heater.
 
Good description. Except there would be no difference in the "eveness" of the heating due to the thermal mass, as well as lag of a resistive heater.
The difference is observable, but is probably insignificant in most of our applications. There are reports on HBT of pulsing boil vigor using the 1 - 2 second cycle time PID's. The thermal time constant of a resistance heater isn't all that long. You are correct that mash temp or HLT temp won't be affected significantly in just 1 - 2 seconds, as the water/mash has a much longer thermal time constant than the heater itself. Any potentially detrimental effects from a longer PWM cycle time would probably be related to heater surface temp variations. At a shorter cycle time, the element peak surface temp will be slightly lower than for a longer cycle time. This might have some implications with respect to wort scorching in a few situations.

Brew on :mug:
 
The difference is observable, but is probably insignificant in most of our applications. There are reports on HBT of pulsing boil vigor using the 1 - 2 second cycle time PID's. The thermal time constant of a resistance heater isn't all that long. You are correct that mash temp or HLT temp won't be affected significantly in just 1 - 2 seconds, as the water/mash has a much longer thermal time constant than the heater itself. Any potentially detrimental effects from a longer PWM cycle time would probably be related to heater surface temp variations. At a shorter cycle time, the element peak surface temp will be slightly lower than for a longer cycle time. This might have some implications with respect to wort scorching in a few situations.

Brew on :mug:
Exactly. On a 5 gallon system and 5500watts you use a 50% output. On a 2 second cycle you can certainly see pulsing.
 
All good discussion but I feel it important to mention that a single 2250w element in a 10 gallon kettle is not going to be a satisfactory boil for 6-7 gallons so all this control talk is moot.

You either need to explore getting a 30 amp circuit for a 5500 watt element or consider a PAIR of 1650w elements. The latter option has the benefit of not needing an expensive controller. I know you said you wanted TC ports on everything, but why?

Something like this will do it.. https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/biabpackage5elec120.htm
Sure it will, if my 1500 watt Robobrew can boil 8 gallon of wort why can't a 2200watt?
 
Here in colorado water boils at 203. That wont cut it at sea level. Where you live matters. Op you seem well on your way, best luck. It will be costly but powerful. You can always use cheap parts. Ask auggie for more on that. Since all the parts are chinese made anyways he has knowledge of the differences if any. Basically a controller will cost 100 to 300 to build depending on where and what parts you buy.
 
I live in Cleveland Ohio. Things are coming along good. I’ve already made the decision, and have received my StillDragon controller. I can always upgrade later. I just need to get the right plugs/ receptacles and I’ll be good to go. I really do appreciate everyone’s help.
 
I live in Cleveland Ohio. Things are coming along good. I’ve already made the decision, and have received my StillDragon controller. I can always upgrade later. I just need to get the right plugs/ receptacles and I’ll be good to go. I really do appreciate everyone’s help.

Please post pics and results when you are done. I'm reading along and learning what direction I want to go.....hell, it's been 2 months. You are probably already drinking beer from this new setup!
 
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No beer made just yet. Decided I wasn’t making any until I had everything covered. I did test the controller with 6 gallons of water though. Only took it to 120*, but it got there very quick. The controller does exactly what it’s intended to do and I would recommend it.

Kettle is ready. I just built the bench over the weekend. I have steam condenser parts in the mail and a conical in the mail. I refuse to boil anything down there until I have the steam solution ready as I have a basement that likes to accumulate moisture already. I don’t want to ferment until I have a temp control system ready. I should have a batch going in the next few weeks though. It is a tease looking at it all lol.
 
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No beer made just yet. Decided I wasn’t making any until I had everything covered. I did test the controller with 6 gallons of water though. Only took it to 120*, but it got there very quick. The controller does exactly what it’s intended to do and I would recommend it.

Kettle is ready. I just built the bench over the weekend. I have steam condenser parts in the mail and a conical in the mail. I refuse to boil anything down there until I have the steam solution ready as I have a basement that likes to accumulate moisture already. I don’t want to ferment until I have a temp control system ready. I should have a batch going in the next few weeks though. It is a tease looking at it all lol.


Nice looking brew bench looks rock solid!

I am from Cleveland area too. What kind of brews you plan on making?
 
The bench is very sturdy. I tossed around the idea of getting a stainless table, but I am very happy I went this route instead.

I got the idea here.
http:/www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-stand?page=3

My first all grain I either plan on doing from a kit, or going with the blonde or amber ale recipe from “how to brew”. Maybe an IPA to follow. Now sure yet.

I’m in eastlake, if your familiar.
 
You're right. I'm just making this up. It's not like I've been running a brewing hardware company for 9 years.
Bobby not to shoot you down, but i'm boiling perfectly fine with a single 1650watt element in a 10 gallon kettle wrapped in a couple layers of reflectix at practically below sea level. Without the reflectix its a gentle boil/simmer, but with the reflectix its a good comfortable rolling boil. You cant boil with the lid fully off, but with it partially on, i have no problem boiling 6.5-7 gallons.

2250watts should have no problem achieving a boil.
 
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I’m happy I went with the 240 anyways though. Gives me room to grow if I decide to. And I put it close to my gas clothes dryer, if I ever decide to get an electric dryer I’ll be set.
 
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