Control panel wiring

[DevildogJn]

Hello fellow Brewers. I'm in the process of programming an arduino board to automate my brewing and I'm building a 150 gallon single vessel brewery. The part that has me really hung up is the wiring of the control panel. I'm lost when it comes to electricity. I'm planning on using a 16500 w three phase element from Colorado brewing supply. Can anyone help me design a wiring diagram to wire a panel up? It only needs to run a 120v pump and the element. I want 1 pid and then of course the arduino board. I want to be able to have the pump valves be electronic as well. The software I'm programming is similar to the brew boss software. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Vesteroid]

So you actually have 3 phase power available to you where you plan to brew? What voltage?

 

[DevildogJn]

The space I have to brew has four 50 amp 4 prong outlets. It used to have several welders hooked up for manufacturing.

 

[DevildogJn]

How can I tell if it's 3 phase power?

 

[DevildogJn]

One more thing. Sorry but my mind is full of info from all over the web. If I don't have three phase electrical would it be easier and or better to use three elements on one pid?

 

[Vesteroid]

Most welders(not all) are 240 single phase.

The breakers would have three throws all tied together if it's a three phase circuit.

 

[DevildogJn]

I don't have three phase. I can hire an electrician to make it 3 phase.

 

[Vesteroid]

If those plugs are 240 50a single phase, you could run 2-4500 watt elements off each drop.

If this is going to be a commercial application more than likely your control panel will need ul certification.

Of course there are components for 100 amp set ups, but your really moving into industrial controls and lots of money.

 

[DevildogJn]

so is it possible to wire a panel that pulls from two different 240 outlets? cobrewingsupply.com has a panel that provides ul listing. it might be better to just get that. it costs a pretty penny though

 

[Gameface]

What is it you are trying to do? How many gallons do you need to boil?

I have a feeling this is being made a bit more complicated than it needs to be, or a bit less complicated than it needs to be. Either way, details as to what you're gonna be doing, especially volumes, will help us give you the right advice.

 

[DevildogJn]

It's a panel for a 150 gallon brewery. Similar to the braumeister 500l. I'm going to try and brew 3.5 to 4bbl at a time. So I'm looking at boil batches around 135 gal. I've designed an arduino program and android app to make it automated. I'm still trying to learn about adding electric valves for the pump. More than anything I need to figure out the wiring for a panel to control either three 5500w elements or 1 16500w element.

 

[Gameface]

I just read the OP again and realized you already said.

Sorry.

 

[neild5]

I don't have three phase. I can hire an electrician to make it 3 phase.

If the building does not have 3 phase service it can not be made 3 phase. To utilize 3 separate circuit breakers feeding one panel would require way more expertise than this forum can provide. You need to hire an electrical engineer that has panel design experience. Just the safety cutout is going to be considerable.

 

[Vesteroid]

In my opinion I would use two different 50 amp panels, one for each circuit, and use 2-4500w elements per panel. Even if you put all the elements in one vessel, with that volume of water, I would guess you won't have overshoot issues.

Copied below is a section from kals website about elements and temp raising ability.

Some real world examples:
- Heat 30 gallons of strike water from 70F to 155F: 68 minutes with 5500W, 42 minutes with 9000W, 34 minutes with 11000W
- Bring 24 gallons of wort from 150F to boil: 40 minutes with 5500W, 24 minutes with 9000W, 20 minutes with 11000W

 

[DevildogJn]

Thanks for the input guys. I need to figure out what I'm going to do and how to get it done.

 

[DevildogJn]

For the sake of conversation, to help speed up water temp times I already bought a tankless water heater that will heat the water to 140f as it fills. It has an output rating of 8 gpm. I figured that would speed a brew day up a bit. I'm still doing to the calculations to see how long it will take to get that volume from 154 mash temp to 170 mash out then up to around 205 for boil.