Contests and bottle conditioning.

[NikolausXX]

I am interested in placing my beers into local competition someday. I am thinking I want to wait until I keg. Do they dock for bottle conditioned beer with a sediment layer in bottom? I don't see how a bottle conditioned beer could stand up in points to a filtered, or kegged and clear poured bottle. I would think the beer from keg bottled beer would be much clearer, especially if filtered and force carbed. This would leave higher impression on judge wouldnt it?
Dont get me wrong. Nothing wrong with cloudy beer, or bottle conditioned beer, its about all I have made lately. I have got some pretty clear bottle conditioned beers, but if you pour the sediment in, it will kill it.

 

[Revvy]

I hate to break it to you, but MOST of the homebrew entered in competitions ARE bottle conditioned beers...the judges don't KNOCK the yeast at the bottom of the bottles...the judges are intelligent enough to know that in order to have living beers, you get yeast in the bottom of it...it a necessary fact of life...nothing to hate...

In fact most of the homebrewed beers in general are bottle conditioned...and also are extract beers...

I enter contests...and placed decently last summer....in fact the biggest comments I got this summer was on the CLARITY of my beer..one of my beers was describes as being jewell like...and ruby like...I believe it comes from the fact that I leave it in primary for a month..use finings to clear it, and give it a nice period of bottle conditioning, make sure I cool the wort quicky and chill long enough to eliminate haze..... In other words brew properly....

Plus the judges and the stewards know how to PROPERLY POUR HOMEBREW so the yeast is left behind...perhaps if you learned it, you wouldn't diss the yeast in your beer....If you don't respect the yeast as being an integral part of REAL Beer...maybe you should go back to drinking BMC...Or learn to pour it the right way...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXn4UBjQkE]YouTube - Episode 014 - How To Pour The Perfect Pint Of Homebrew[/ame]

NONE OF MY BEERS ARE CLOUDY.

In fact....Flitered dead beers account for a tiny minority of the beer industry, craft and macro...MOST decent Craft beers are still alive, and un filtered...that's why so many of us bottle harvest the yeast...


Here's a pretty comprehensinve, though outdated list of all the beers that HAVE YEAST IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BOTTLE...If you take into account BMC's and the hanful of craft breweries that filter and pasturize..you would see that living beers are in the MAJORITY...not the other way around...

Yeasts from Bottle Conditioned Beers

And the Belgians worship yeast SO MUCH in their beers, that they use a seperate bottling strain to hide the fermentation strain from people like me..


But they believe that LIVING BOTTLE CONDITIONED BEERS should be reveered...

If only filtered bottled beers from kegs were entered in cmpetitions, there would be very few entries in them.....heck the last one I entered had over 800 beers entered...I betcha less than 5% were filtered and came from a keg....

FYI....only a small MINORITY of Keggers filter their beer either...People keg not to avoid yeast in their beer (it's still there) BUT TO AVOID BOTTLING.....


So, if you think you have beer worthy enough to enter into competitions, don't wait to filter and keg....None of the rest of us are...

 

[Jordan303]

Lot's of good information there. Thanks!

 

[Parker36]

Tell us how you really feel, Revvy

 

[NikolausXX]

Looks like I hit a sore spot revvy. I wasnt promoting filtering, and im glad to hear there are many bottle conditioned entries. I just know with my homebrew (and yes I know how to pour) sometimes I get a bad pour and it ruins the look of the beer. I dont think im uber beer brewer and win all the comps with clear or cloudy. But everyone likes to win! I dont have any kegs yet, been brewing for about a year, and have bottle conditioned over 300 beers! So im still a lightweight. But every day I learn something new from this site. Just was wondering how bottle condition weighed in comps, compared to bottles filled from a keg, as there would be no yeast in the bottom. None of the store bought have as much sediment as mine, but may be my procedure needs tweaked some more!

 

[Malticulous]

In other words brew properly....

Or the Revvy way that is...

I don't have any plans of entering a contest. I want to drink my beer and like it. I started out with the simple goal of making better beer than PBR. I've failed twice. So I'm not one to answer this. But I do have a question for you. If you like it and the others that really drink it with you do too why does some contest judge's opinion even matter? This is just one thing you have to do to please yourself or what the point?

 

[BigKahuna]

Or the Revvy way that is...

You sure like to antagonize Revvy.

As he pointed out, most brewers bottle beer that is competition bound. If you brew it properly, you'll be good to go.

 

[Malticulous]

No, there are no rules. Every beer is different. We should all know this. It's not as simple as 1-2-3.

 

[BigKahuna]

No, there are no rules. Every beer is different.

True, but if you are building a beer that is competition bound, you'd do yourself well to stick to standard time proven brewing procedures. They are what win competitions.

 

[NikolausXX]

Not to confuse the thread, same brewing process, is there advantage to entering a bottle filled from a keg, as compared to bottle conditioned. Its still beer from a keg, there is still malt hops and yeast.

 

[Malticulous]

I recently read thread here where someone did not let the bottle sit as long as he thought it should and went ahead and entered it in a competition anyway and it placed.

I do get sick of seeing the same long winded posts over and over.

 

[Kilgore_Trout]

I recently read thread here where someone did not let the bottle sit as long as he thought it should and went ahead and entered it in a competition anyway and it placed.

I do get sick of seeing the same long winded posts over and over.

No one is saying that bending the "rules" is going to produce bad beer.

You wouldn't see the same posts over and over if people didn't ask the same questions over and over, or make the same mistakes over and over.

"best practices" exist for a reason, sure you can do without, but people follow them because they work. In the end it's your choice, but experts give advice because they have experience.

 

[BierMuncher]

Good judges should see past the cloudiness and disregard it in their scoring.

"Should" is the operative here.

If enough yeast gets kicked up as the beers are being carted in, no amount of expertise in decanting can correct that. If the yeast ends up adversely affecting the taste of the beer, it may get dinged.

Regardless, never hesitate to enter beers into a legitimate contest. Even if you are an early, extract, bottle conditioning brewer, you'll receive feedback to make you a better brewer.

 

[BigKahuna]

I do get sick of seeing the same long winded posts over and over.

Kinda like seeing the same questions asked over and over huh?

It's all part of helping people, like it or not.

Lately, I've tried to chat in Chat...and when I feel the need to help, I've been coming to the forums. When I get tired of answering q's.....I just don't....You could try the same.

 

[Malticulous]

Thanks for the wisdom BK.

 

[mmb]

None of the store bought have as much sediment as mine, but may be my procedure needs tweaked some more!

How long do you let your beer sit in primary/secondary? Do you use some sort of finnings in the boil? There should be a yeast layer on the bottom of the bottle, but there shouldn't be as much as it sounds your getting.

 

[NikolausXX]

I use irish moss right now in boil last 15, I primary for 2 weeks or more, then secondary for 5 days too a week, usually add a little gelatin. Im not complaining about my beer, just hesitant to put into a contest. I bottle condition for 3 weeks usually at room temp. Beer is usually 6-8 weeks old before I start drinking it. I posted the question to see if most of you bottle from kegs, or bottle condition beers put into competition. I plan on having a keg setup shortly after the new year. I will admit my pale ales made with safe ale 04, 2 batches had LOTS of sediment in bottles. My wyeast wheat beers have had minimal. My cream of 3 crops with safe ale 05 seems to have minimal. Ive been working to NOT syphon any yeast up out of my secondary when I go to bottle bucket, but still seems I get some in there. I may also let carboy sit longer before racking to bucket in future.

 

[mmb]

I'd recommend leaving the beer in secondary for at least 2 weeks and then rack to bottling. I leave everything in primary for at the very least 3 weeks and most to 4 before I think about kegging. Extend your time out in secondary to give the beer more chance to clear.

Even with kegging and bottling off of force carbonated kegs you'll still find that as the beer sits in the bottle it will drop a dusting of particulate out onto the bottom of the bottle. You would need to filter to keep any sediment out of the bottle and that's a whole art unto itself.