Constantly have low gravity

[schmurf]

I'm still not sure if 1.020 is your gravity before or after fermentation?

 

[Sergei]

I'm still not sure if 1.020 is your gravity before or after fermentation?

that is pre-boil gravity

 

[Fogey890]

How big are those vessels? Is this a complete Anvil brew system?
If not, can you post a link to that system, especially the mash tun?
Do you know how to use that system?


Refractometer!
Did you write any gravity numbers down? If so what were they?

I use 2 10 gallon igloo coolers and a 20 gallon anvil idk why I bought such a big brew kettle.

My og was 1.020 and final I didn't write down last night as I was frustrated but my brand new hydrometer was barely above the beer line I just don't remember what number that is.

 

[Fogey890]

I'm still not sure if 1.020 is your gravity before or after fermentation?

Before sorry

 

[Sergei]

I use 2 10 gallon igloo coolers and a 20 gallon anvil idk why I bought such a big brew kettle.

My og was 1.020 and final I didn't write down last night as I was frustrated but my brand new hydrometer was barely above the beer line I just don't remember what number that is.

Your OG was about 1.025 when you boiled 7 gallons into 5.5 g of the wort. Also note, that the temperature of the liquid changes the reading.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm still not sure if 1.020 is your gravity before or after fermentation?

Before sorry

Yowsers!

For starters, don't fly sparge anymore. Aside from being tedious and mostly impractical on small systems, it needs a complete understanding of the mash system and process/mechanisms involved.

I I would start with getting a copy of John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.
It helps getting to know correct terminology, understand the various processes involved, and basically: Learning how to brew!

I never struggled with extract and invested so much into all grain

Brewing extract can hardly be considered a struggle. The mash, sparge, and boil have already been done, expertly!
All you need to do is dissolve the malt powder (or syrup) in your boil kettle with water, and take it from thereon, making (real) beer from it.

 

[Fogey890]

Yowsers!

For starters, don't fly sparge anymore. Aside from being tedious and mostly impractical on small systems, it needs a complete understanding of the mash system and process/mechanisms involved.

I I would start with getting a copy of John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.
It helps getting to know correct terminology, understand the various processes involved, and basically: Learning how to brew!


Brewing extract can hardly be considered a struggle. The mash, sparge, and boil have already been done, expertly!
All you need to do is dissolve the malt powder (or syrup) in your boil kettle with water, and take it from thereon, making (real) beer from it.

I appreciate that a lot thank you.

 

[marc1]

Maybe I have them wrong I've kind of learned from this post I brew completely wrong.

I guess I thought strike was for when you sparge it into the brew kettle I'm going to reread some of the books I have and watch a couple more videos cause i seem to be on a different planet than everyone else with it

Learning here is the whole point - we're making good progress figuring this out!

Before you try making your next brew, let's go over the plan for that in detail. So for now, do some reading and research, and when you're ready post the steps for that in EXCRUCIATING detail. Like, so an imbecile can't misconstrue anything about or between the steps, and would be able to repeat your process without any additional guidance.

That way we can see if there are any faulty assumptions in the process, or other things that were missed.

 

[Fogey890]

Learning here is the whole point - we're making good progress figuring this out!

Before you try making your next brew, let's go over the plan for that in detail. So for now, do some reading and research, and when you're ready post the steps for that in EXCRUCIATING detail. Like, so an imbecile can't misconstrue anything about or between the steps, and would be able to repeat your process without any additional guidance.

That way we can see if there are any faulty assumptions in the process, or other things that were missed.

Cool I'll post when I'm in the planning stage

 

[Deadalus]

Yowsers!

For starters, don't fly sparge anymore. Aside from being tedious and mostly impractical on small systems, it needs a complete understanding of the mash system and process/mechanisms involved.

I I would start with getting a copy of John Palmer's How to Brew, 4th Ed.
It helps getting to know correct terminology, understand the various processes involved, and basically: Learning how to brew!


Brewing extract can hardly be considered a struggle. The mash, sparge, and boil have already been done, expertly!
All you need to do is dissolve the malt powder (or syrup) in your boil kettle with water, and take it from thereon, making (real) beer from it.

I disagree with your assessment about fly sparging, mostly with the impracticality, although I don't find it particularly tedious either. Potentially your statement is tied to what you might consider a small system. Anyway though, It's not clear whether the attempt was to batch or fly sparge, other than the mention of not stirring much. Possibly there is a sparging problem either way, in that @Fogey890 may have let the sparge water pass through too quickly.

 

[Fogey890]

Cool I'll post when I'm in the planning stage

I disagree with your assessment about fly sparging, mostly with the impracticality, although I don't find it particularly tedious either. Potentially your statement is tied to what you might consider a small system. Anyway though, It's not clear whether the attempt was to batch or fly sparge, other than the mention of not stirring much. Possibly there is a sparging problem either way, in that @Fogey890 may have let the sparge water pass through too quickly.

I do fly sparge. I try to go slow it took around 30 minutes

 

[IslandLizard]

For starters, don't fly sparge anymore.

There is a better, small batch alternative to fly sparging: Batch sparging. There are quite a few variants on that theme.

BIAB (Brew/Mash In A Bag/Basket) used with most single vessel brew "systems" is basically a non-sparge variant, or a (small) dunk sparge (or two) can be added at the end for increased efficiency, but require a second vessel large enough to hold the grain bag and some additional (sparge) water.

Going the batch sparge route doesn't obsolete your investment in equipment, it uses it more efficiently:

1. Your HLT (converted round cooler) remains your hot water storage vessel.
2. Your Mash Tun (converted round cooler) remains your mash tun. There are a few ways to incorporate the false bottom. Or use a mesh bag as the filter instead.
3. Your boil kettle remains what it is, your boil kettle. Just watch your boil-off (evaporation) rate, it tends to be much higher with oversized kettles, as in 2-3x as high. For example, 2 or 3 gallons boil off per hour instead of only one. Depends on your heat source too.

Although your 20 gallon boil kettle seems huge for 5 gallon batches, it's also a very good size for doing (single vessel) BIAB, e.g, mashing in a mesh bag inside your boil kettle. The bag gets lifted/removed after the mash has completed, and placed in a big bucket (or your converted cooler mash tun) for a dunk sparge. The wort remains in your (boil) kettle, and you can start the boil as soon as the bag is removed.
In this BIAB scenario, your boil kettle becomes more or less a single vessel type of brewing "system." The HLT can still store your pre-heated sparge water, while your mash tun has become the sparge vessel.

 

[tracer bullet]

Nevermind, was replying before a page refresh showed many more posts covering what I was going to say.

But since I'm here, I'll mention that this could be a "back to the basics" opportunity.

X lbs grain, ensure a good crush
predetermined water amount to mash in
temp for that water before mashing, to be sure it'll be OK when actually mashing
batch sparging with instructions as to water used

Shouldn't be terribly hard to get a reasonable gravity from that. We'd all be willing to take a look at the numbers.

 

[bracconiere]

i actually read this thread, you did mill the grain right? not to ask a stupid question but out of curiosity?


edit: except the last post! @tracer bullet

 

[Deadalus]

There is a better, small batch alternative to fly sparging: Batch sparging. There are quite a few variants on that theme.

BIAB (Brew/Mash In A Bag/Basket) used with most single vessel brew "systems" is basically a non-sparge variant, or a (small) dunk sparge (or two) can be added at the end for increased efficiency, but require a second vessel large enough to hold the grain bag and some additional (sparge) water.

Going the batch sparge route doesn't obsolete your investment in equipment, it uses it more efficiently:

1. Your HLT (converted round cooler) remains your hot water storage vessel.
2. Your Mash Tun (converted round cooler) remains your mash tun. There are a few ways to incorporate the false bottom. Or use a mesh bag as the filter instead.
3. Your boil kettle remains what it is, your boil kettle. Just watch your boil-off (evaporation) rate, it tends to be much higher with oversized kettles, as in 2-3x as high. For example, 2 or 3 gallons boil off per hour instead of only one. Depends on your heat source too.

Although your 20 gallon boil kettle seems huge for 5 gallon batches, it's also a very good size for doing (single vessel) BIAB, e.g, mashing in a mesh bag inside your boil kettle. The bag gets lifted/removed after the mash has completed, and placed in a big bucket (or your converted cooler mash tun) for a dunk sparge. The wort remains in your (boil) kettle, and you can start the boil as soon as the bag is removed.
In this BIAB scenario, your boil kettle becomes more or less a single vessel type of brewing "system." The HLT can still store your pre-heated sparge water, while your mash tun has become the sparge vessel.

So your statement is tied to what you consider a "small batch system" in that you are considering it in the context of BIAB. The OP has a three vessel system. I don't particularly see any impracticality of fly sparging between say a 5, 10, or 15 gallon three vessel system, which are like small, medium, and large for homebrewers. It'll take a little longer sure but that's not impractical. I wouldn't have to change my sparge arm, it's just working with different volumes.

Batch sparging is easier but less efficient. Fly sparging can be somewhat tedious to fool around with your pump and valves at times. It's not impractical though. I started out all grain brewing where I mashed on the stove and transferred to a lauter tun built from a plastic brewing bucket with drain holes drilled inside a bottling bucket. I used a small 1-2 gallon bucket also with holes to fly sparge the water into the lauter tun. Tedious but not impractical.

I'm not particularly keen to make it a BIAB vs 3 vessel type argument, but if I am reading you correctly, you've had to add another vessel just to sparge in your description. Basic BIAB you aren't really sparging in the first place, not as we are discussing.

 

[Deadalus]

I do fly sparge. I try to go slow it took around 30 minutes

I'm not leaning towards you have a sparging problem unless you had channeling perhaps. Your recipe would have an estimated original gravity somewhere close to 1.070 for a five gallon batch. If your measured value for the original gravity is 1.020, that is grossly off from the estimate. Thirty minutes of sparge time for 3.2 gallons is nowhere near too fast. Do you have some sort of sparge arm that diffuses the water over the grain bed? I suppose it's possible that you could have created a channel if you were pouring the water into the MT with say a pitcher and kept pouring it at the exact spot but to do that over multiple batches, seems unlikely that's the problem. Your temps were fine, even fading lower isn't an issue because in that range that you dropped, that would tend to increase the final ABV. Since you had two thermometers, less likely your temperatures were grossly off.

 

[youngson616]

I can't find out why my gravity is always 1.020 or in that ball park leaving my beers at like 2%. I use distilled water, have a filter instead of a false bottom(could that be it) my Temps have been right on the money. I can't figure it out and it's driving me nuts. Just kegged today after letting it ferment for 3 weeks but it's still low. Any help is appreciated.

I hope you figure this out. Im newer to homebrewing and have not experienced this issue but can tell you it isn't distilled water making your numbers bad. However I did my first AG batch with distilled water and no water chemistry and the numbers were good but it tasted grainy I think from ph inbalanced. For this reason I would advise not using distilled water unless you moniter and correct ph. Good luck

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I would advise not using distilled water unless you moniter and correct ph.

Take a look at "Water Chemistry - How to Build Your Water" (link). The adjustments for brewing with RO/distilled water are not complicated and don't need a pH meter.

 

[SRJHops]

A good puzzle... I am guessing your expected OG was around 1.060 or so, so getting 1.020 is indeed shockingly low.

Seems the two most likely issues, as noted by others, are gravity measuring issues and the use of distilled water.

Distilled water alone is not a great source for brewing water. The starting ph is 7, and you'll likely not end up with an ideal mash ph between 5.2 and 5.6. You'll also be missing some key nutrients for fermentation, such as calcium. Unless it's totally awful, you'd be much better off using tap water and a campden tablet.

The thing is, people who don't adjust their mash water ph still get better conversion than you are getting, even with tap water in the 9 ph range. So, I think measuring issues must be in play here too.

There seemed to be some discussion about what you are measuring. It should of course be the wort in the kettle (stirred gently to mix), both pre and post-boil. (Or the wort in the fermenter before adding yeast.) Keep in mind that all measuring tools have trouble with high temperatures, even when they claim to adjust. So try to measure at room temperature.

I actually measure OG three ways, and it's a good day when all three measuring tools are in agreement! I use a refractometer, hydrometer, and Tilt. When they don't agree, I usually defer to the hydrometer, which needs the least calibration.

 

[MHBT]

Whats your grain crush like? Whats your mash ph? Did you check if your thermometer is accurate? Are you using correct water volumes? Sort those things out and next batch yoy will definitely see a better target OG, 12 lbs of grain fot 5 gallon batch should definitely yield a 1060 OG, best of luck to ya

 

[doug293cz]

So your statement is tied to what you consider a "small batch system" in that you are considering it in the context of BIAB. The OP has a three vessel system. I don't particularly see any impracticality of fly sparging between say a 5, 10, or 15 gallon three vessel system, which are like small, medium, and large for homebrewers. It'll take a little longer sure but that's not impractical. I wouldn't have to change my sparge arm, it's just working with different volumes.

Batch sparging is easier but less efficient. Fly sparging can be somewhat tedious to fool around with your pump and valves at times. It's not impractical though. I started out all grain brewing where I mashed on the stove and transferred to a lauter tun built from a plastic brewing bucket with drain holes drilled inside a bottling bucket. I used a small 1-2 gallon bucket also with holes to fly sparge the water into the lauter tun. Tedious but not impractical.

I'm not particularly keen to make it a BIAB vs 3 vessel type argument, but if I am reading you correctly, you've had to add another vessel just to sparge in your description. Basic BIAB you aren't really sparging in the first place, not as we are discussing.

Yes, a correctly done fly sparge has higher lauter efficiency (and thus higher mash efficiency) than a batch sparge. However, it is much simpler for a beginner to get good and consistent results with a batch sparge, since channeling is not a possibility. All that is required is aggressive mixing prior to each run-off. With where the OP is in their learning, batch sparging is probably a good option until they can get consistent mash efficiency.

No sparge is even simpler than batch sparge, but takes a 8% - 9% hit on lauter efficiency (and mash efficiency) compared to single batch sparge (all else being equal.)

For a beginner, maximizing efficiency should not be the goal. Learning the process should be.

Brew on

 

[davidabcd]

Can I make the joke now that hit me as soon as I read the thread title? Constantly have low gravity.

Move to a larger planet.

 

[MHBT]

Dont sparge, it’s not necessary, i sparged 99% of my brewing life 15 years and just recently started no sparge exclusively, i like the wort/ beer more, sparge and save few extra minimal bucks or dont sparge and save time its on you

Edit: i will start sparging simply to partygyle but other then that skip it

 

[balrog]

For a beginner, maximizing efficiency should not be the goal. Learning the process should be.

This.

Times.

A googleplex.

(Plus 42, because, well, you know.)

 

[doug293cz]

Is "1.020" reading for 7 or 5.5 gallons?
Also, did you make iodine test? is your beer cloudy?

7 gallons I did it as I was sparging. Never done a iodine test before It's not cloudy

If you measured the SG of the wort as you were sparging, that is very likely the cause of your low reading. The wort gets more diluted (lower SG) the further you get into the sparge process. To get an accurate pre-boil SG, you need to stir very aggressively prior to taking the measurement, so that all of the wort is homogenized (uniform sugar concentration and SG.)

To really understand your process (w.r.t. efficiency and SGs), you need to take the following measurements:

• Grain bill weight, and weighted average grain potential.
• Strike (mash) water volume, and temp at which volume is measured (for expansion correction)
• SG of wort at the end of mash (before sparging starts and after thorough mixing.)
• Pre-boil volume, and temp at which volume is measured
• Pre-boil SG, after thorough mixing and corrected for temperature
• Post-boil volume, and temp at which volume is measured
• Post-boil SG (i.e. OG), after thorough mixing and corrected for temperature

Measurement accuracy is important, because the calculated values can only be a accurate as your least accurate measurement.

Brew on

 

[SRJHops]

If you measured the SG of the wort as you were sparging, that is very likely the cause of your low reading. The wort gets more diluted (lower SG) the further you get into the sparge process. To get an accurate pre-boil SG, you need to stir very aggressively prior to taking the measurement, so that all of the wort is homogenized (uniform sugar concentration and SG.)

To really understand your process (w.r.t. efficiency and SGs), you need to take the following measurements:

• Grain bill weight, and weighted average grain potential.
• Strike (mash) water volume, and temp at which volume is measured (for expansion correction)
• SG of wort at the end of mash (before sparging starts and after thorough mixing.)
• Pre-boil volume, and temp at which volume is measured
• Pre-boil SG, after thorough mixing and corrected for temperature
• Post-boil volume, and temp at which volume is measured
• Post-boil SG (i.e. OG), after thorough mixing and corrected for temperature

Measurement accuracy is important, because the calculated values can only be a accurate as your least accurate measurement.

Brew on

I'd be curious to learn how some of those measurements really matter. My pre-boil is usually 7 gallons. And post boil I am happy with 6 gallons or so. How much could the temperature of either matter overall? Maybe for a big system, but at the homebrew level? An ounce or two? I am shooting for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter, but it's give or take a few pints to be sure.

 

[balrog]

How much could the temperature of either matter overall?

4% of 6-7 gallons between room temp and boiling temp. That is 30-35 ounces.

 

[SRJHops]

4% of 6-7 gallons between room temp and boiling temp. That is 30-35 ounces.

Interesting. So maybe 2 pints. Still not sure what I would do with that info. I suppose shoot for a pint over 7 gallons for pre-boil if I really need exactly 7 gallons. (Though I don't really need to be that precise.) My wort pre-boil is around 150, give or take. If it's at 7 gallons, I wonder how many ounces under it really is...

 

[doug293cz]

I'd be curious to learn how some of those measurements really matter. My pre-boil is usually 7 gallons. And post boil I am happy with 6 gallons or so. How much could the temperature of either matter overall? Maybe for a big system, but at the homebrew level? An ounce or two? I am shooting for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter, but it's give or take a few pints to be sure.

Grain bill weight, grain potential, strike volume, and end of mash SG can be used to calculate your conversion efficiency.

Grain bill weight, grain potential, pre-boil volume, and pre-boil SG can be used to calculate your mash efficiency.

Grain bill weight, grain potential, post-boil volume, and post-boil SG can also be used to calculate your mash efficiency.

Calculating pre- and post-boil mash efficiency is a good way to check the accuracy of your measurements. If the two don't match, it means that you have excessive measurement errors.

Volume changes ~4% between room temp and boiling. Not knowing the temp at which you measured volume can mean you start out with up to 4% error in your calculations, even before you take other measurement inaccuracies into account.

Once you know your conversion efficiency and your mash efficiency, you can calculate your lauter efficiency (lauter eff = mash eff / conversion eff.) If you have low mash efficiency, you need to know if it's because of low conversion or poor lauter technique, as the fixes are different for the two cases.

If you don't care how your process is performing, then you don't have to worry about collecting data. But, HBT is full of threads about "why is my efficiency low?", "why is my OG low?", etc. These questions cannot be accurately answered without the necessary data.

Brew on

 

[Beholder]

Good advice above on process, but with your initial issue, your 1.020 is best explained by measurement error, likely from not well mixed sparge water. This is supported also by your observed vigorous fermentation, which a 1.020 OG wort would assuredly not be.

Didn’t catch method of measurement (refrac or hydro), but sample temperature can also play a role, so should bring to room temp, but this would not explain a ~30 point miss.