lulubrewer
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- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
- Messages
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Hi,
I have brewed 4 times over the last 2 years and have always been having the same off flavor. (I have been brewing for 8 years, a couple batches a year. I feel like I have always had this issue, but considering the time period I can't say for sure that I have)
It is an aftertaste that lingers for quite a while. I have been through all the classic off flavors descriptions but can't really point to one that seems appropriate. The closet I would use is the cardboard description of oxidation. It sticks to the top of the roof of the mouth and kinda feels/taste like a piece of cardboard stuck on the top of the mouth. It doesn't feel astringent. It appears once the beer is fully carbonated. I have taken steps to address potential issues with tannins, oxidation and overcabonation. I am at a loss...
Here is a description of my last 4 brews from oldest to more recent.
tripel 1:
5 gallon batch
9% ABV finishes at 1010
multistep mashing with direct heat (can't find the actual steps temp/time)
all pils from dingemans with 10-15% table sugar
All saaz (20-30 ibus) mostly bittering addition
Batch sparged
Wy3787 with 4l starter (no stirring plate)
Wyeast nutrients (per instructions on packaging)
oxygenated with pure O2 for 60s
fermented in chess freezer starting at 64F finishing at 74
bottled for 3 volumes of CO2
water was 100% store bought DI water with salts added (CaCl) and used Phosphoric acid. The additions were based on Bruin water and the water primer. I didn't have a pH meter
tripel 2:
Similar to first tripel but did a 10 gallon batch using a new kettle. The water was 65ppm calcium, 115ppm chloride. The pH was measured with a pH meter at 5.35 at room temperature (the last drop of last batch sparge was 5.5).
Reached FG (1007) in 7 days from 64 to 78 (+2 degrees a day) and was kept at 78 for a week before lowering at 68 for a week and 32F for another.
Bottled at 3.5V CO2
1st lager:
I bough a bunch of kegs from a friend to remove the risk of oxidation at bottling.
SG: 1055
FG: 1015
1/3 pils, 1/3 vienna, 1/3 munich I (all from weyermann)
Hallertauer Mittelfrueh: 2.5 oz @60 min (19ibu) and 1oz @15min (3.8ibu)
Yeast: W34/70. rehydrated, 2 packs per 5 gallon fermenters
water was: 48ppm calcium, 84ppm chloride and phosphoric acid to reach mash pH of 5.4 (the last batch sparge finished at 5.7 on last drop).
Pitched at 45F fermented at 48F for for 4 days until it reached 1020 and then ramped to 60F (took a couple days to reach). Left it at 60F for a couple weeks then transferred to keg and dropped to 32F for 2 weeks while carbing. left it at 45F for the couple months it took me to finish it.
2nd lager:
SG: 1042
FG: 1006
The low SG and FG are explained by the fact that I used a new mash tun (cooler) and the bad crush. I did a single infusion and got the temp wrong (mashed at 147). The crush from morebeer seemed like 2/3 of the grains were intact.
50% pils /50% munich II (all weyermann)
similar hopping schedule but amped up to a supposed 30ish ibu.
Water: I used CaCl and Gypsum for a change. Still all DI water. Calcium: 78ppm, Chloride: 84ppm, Sulfate: 74ppm and phosphorique acid. The pH was measured at 5.2 until the very last sparge,
Fermented in kegs to further limit oxidation. I used the CO2 from fermentation to purge the serving kegs (full of starsan)
pitched 2 packs of W34/70 directly into wort at 68F (wasn't as cold as I anticipated)
10 hours later it was at 51. I let it go up do 55 and kept it here for the bulk of the fermentation. At day 5 I set the chamber to 65 thinking that most of the fermentation was done since I had a low SG, 2 packs per 4.5 gallon and it had been bubbling happily. It took a couple days to reach that temperature and was done bubbling once at 65F. On day 16, I cooled it down to 32F and close-transferred to the serving keg. After 2 weeks at 32, I raised the temp to 45 for serving and realized it had no flavor and what so ever and was very dry. This was actually simply overcarbonation and was much better after letting it degas over several days.
Anyways, all of these batches have the same off flavor that develops (or probably that just become noticeable) once carbonated. I have changed everything kettle, mash tun, fermenters, I got a pH meter, switched to fermentation in kegs. The only thing I haven't changed is my immersion chiller (I noticed a couple spots of verdigris the other day, so maybe?). Considering the steps I have taken, I have a hard time believing it is oxidation or astringency from tannins but I don't know...
This was an overwhelming thread to put together and English is not my first language so be kind if there is some omissions or parts that don't make sense..
I have brewed 4 times over the last 2 years and have always been having the same off flavor. (I have been brewing for 8 years, a couple batches a year. I feel like I have always had this issue, but considering the time period I can't say for sure that I have)
It is an aftertaste that lingers for quite a while. I have been through all the classic off flavors descriptions but can't really point to one that seems appropriate. The closet I would use is the cardboard description of oxidation. It sticks to the top of the roof of the mouth and kinda feels/taste like a piece of cardboard stuck on the top of the mouth. It doesn't feel astringent. It appears once the beer is fully carbonated. I have taken steps to address potential issues with tannins, oxidation and overcabonation. I am at a loss...
Here is a description of my last 4 brews from oldest to more recent.
tripel 1:
5 gallon batch
9% ABV finishes at 1010
multistep mashing with direct heat (can't find the actual steps temp/time)
all pils from dingemans with 10-15% table sugar
All saaz (20-30 ibus) mostly bittering addition
Batch sparged
Wy3787 with 4l starter (no stirring plate)
Wyeast nutrients (per instructions on packaging)
oxygenated with pure O2 for 60s
fermented in chess freezer starting at 64F finishing at 74
bottled for 3 volumes of CO2
water was 100% store bought DI water with salts added (CaCl) and used Phosphoric acid. The additions were based on Bruin water and the water primer. I didn't have a pH meter
tripel 2:
Similar to first tripel but did a 10 gallon batch using a new kettle. The water was 65ppm calcium, 115ppm chloride. The pH was measured with a pH meter at 5.35 at room temperature (the last drop of last batch sparge was 5.5).
Reached FG (1007) in 7 days from 64 to 78 (+2 degrees a day) and was kept at 78 for a week before lowering at 68 for a week and 32F for another.
Bottled at 3.5V CO2
1st lager:
I bough a bunch of kegs from a friend to remove the risk of oxidation at bottling.
SG: 1055
FG: 1015
1/3 pils, 1/3 vienna, 1/3 munich I (all from weyermann)
Hallertauer Mittelfrueh: 2.5 oz @60 min (19ibu) and 1oz @15min (3.8ibu)
Yeast: W34/70. rehydrated, 2 packs per 5 gallon fermenters
water was: 48ppm calcium, 84ppm chloride and phosphoric acid to reach mash pH of 5.4 (the last batch sparge finished at 5.7 on last drop).
Pitched at 45F fermented at 48F for for 4 days until it reached 1020 and then ramped to 60F (took a couple days to reach). Left it at 60F for a couple weeks then transferred to keg and dropped to 32F for 2 weeks while carbing. left it at 45F for the couple months it took me to finish it.
2nd lager:
SG: 1042
FG: 1006
The low SG and FG are explained by the fact that I used a new mash tun (cooler) and the bad crush. I did a single infusion and got the temp wrong (mashed at 147). The crush from morebeer seemed like 2/3 of the grains were intact.
50% pils /50% munich II (all weyermann)
similar hopping schedule but amped up to a supposed 30ish ibu.
Water: I used CaCl and Gypsum for a change. Still all DI water. Calcium: 78ppm, Chloride: 84ppm, Sulfate: 74ppm and phosphorique acid. The pH was measured at 5.2 until the very last sparge,
Fermented in kegs to further limit oxidation. I used the CO2 from fermentation to purge the serving kegs (full of starsan)
pitched 2 packs of W34/70 directly into wort at 68F (wasn't as cold as I anticipated)
10 hours later it was at 51. I let it go up do 55 and kept it here for the bulk of the fermentation. At day 5 I set the chamber to 65 thinking that most of the fermentation was done since I had a low SG, 2 packs per 4.5 gallon and it had been bubbling happily. It took a couple days to reach that temperature and was done bubbling once at 65F. On day 16, I cooled it down to 32F and close-transferred to the serving keg. After 2 weeks at 32, I raised the temp to 45 for serving and realized it had no flavor and what so ever and was very dry. This was actually simply overcarbonation and was much better after letting it degas over several days.
Anyways, all of these batches have the same off flavor that develops (or probably that just become noticeable) once carbonated. I have changed everything kettle, mash tun, fermenters, I got a pH meter, switched to fermentation in kegs. The only thing I haven't changed is my immersion chiller (I noticed a couple spots of verdigris the other day, so maybe?). Considering the steps I have taken, I have a hard time believing it is oxidation or astringency from tannins but I don't know...
This was an overwhelming thread to put together and English is not my first language so be kind if there is some omissions or parts that don't make sense..